I've been a vegetarian for over 35 years, and I can tell you that people ask why for 2 general reasons: 1) because they are actually curious, or 2) to pick a fight with you. So my first advice is to determine, if you can, which type of query you've got. I generally assume good will but it's not always the case.

Second, make up a short, light-hearted, vague answer. A dear friend became a vegan overnight and was stunned at the hostility he encountered. Turns out he was announcing his decision using terms like murder, exploitation, and rape of the planet. Gee, wonder why people are getting so HOSTILE, Dan!

Often people start their query along the lines of "but what can you eat?" My standard answer is "Anything that grows." That's a huge list there. It oftens stops the whole discussion in its tracks as the asker takes in just how much food that is, and I can change the subject.

Worrying about offending someone for making a personal decision to live more consciously and non-violently? Uh, ok.

Vegans need not apologize to anyone for their diet, the suggestion is ironic and laughable.

So, your friend was being HONEST about the repercussion of an animal based diet and that made someone hostile? Where is the problem? Not with your pal Dan, that's for sure.

I completely agree with cmcinnyc!

I usually give some vague list - "oh you know, health reasons, and ecological reasons, and the animal cruelty arguments are pretty convincing..."

That way, if someone wants to pick a fight, they usually don't know where to start and back off, and if they were really curious, they're either satisfied with that or they ask follow up questions that are easier to answer.

I'm not vegetarian, but I've seen conversations about choosing to become a vegetarian become hostile/defensive. I think you could start light - and then re-frame. Something like, "Oh, there are so many reasons! For one thing I LOVE veggies. Have you ever tried roasted eggplant? Amazing!" And you're off. Depending on the response from the questioner, you can choose to go into moral/ethical reasoning - or you can expound on the fabulous recipes for eggplant (or your veggie dish of choice).

I've been a veg for 25 years or so, and my advice is to, above all, have a sense of humor. cmcinnyc's suggestion to have a short, light-hearted answer is a good idea. Put the focus on this being your decision because it fits your life and needs as opposed to putting the focus on anyone else's choices. "I wanted to [eat healthier, avoid animal proteins and fats, explore unfamiliar foods - whatever your reasons] and becoming a vegetarian felt like the best way for me to achieve those goals." Just an example. Perhaps a little pageant contestant-y, but hopefully you see what I'm getting at. If you're simply explaining your choice in a friendly, sensitive manner, and someone reacts badly, it's really their issue, not yours. I get a lot of teasing and ribbing from my seriously meat-focused family and some friends, but I just give as good as I get and we're all doing it in good humor. I hope your experience is similar. Welcome to vegetarianism! It's delicious here!

As an omnivore with a number of friends and acquaintances who are vegetarian or vegan, I understand the difficulty here. First, be certain you know why you have made the choice, be confident in it, and be well-informed. In my experience, perhaps even worse than people who preach about the morality of their dietary choices are people who preach with misinformation.

Then, I suggest not making it an issue. If a good friend is interested, or if the topic comes up in serious conversation, be prepared to discuss it neutrally and intelligently. But there is no reason to go around announcing it. If you are out with friends, you don't need to preface your order with 'I'm vegetarian now'. If someone asks casually, you have no obligation to explain why you ordered what you did, and no obligation to justify your life choices. Since I doubt people would be discussing why the person next to you just ordered a steak, why you ordered eggplant isn't any more relevant. Saying "I'm vegetarian" and "for personal reasons" should be sufficient.

This is a personal choice, and as long as you avoid being judgemental of those who have chosen something else, you're fine. But you have no obligation to discuss it or justify it than you do your political beliefs and how you vote, or your sexual orientation.

When I first made the decision to became a vegetarian 3.5 years ago, I also made the decisions to not call myself one until I had been meat free for 3 months. I had a feeling some of my friends would be a bit skeptical about my sudden lifestyle change. So instead of declaring "I'm a vegetarian" I would tell people that I was trying out vegetarianism and cutting meat out of my diet for awhile. For some reason, people responded well to that.

Three and a half years later, and I'm very proud to call myself a vegetarian. When people ask why I don't eat meat I simply say, "I love all animals...and I just don't like the idea of eating someone I love."

I was a vegetarian for most of my life, vegan for a few years, and I always found the easiest way to answer that question is to address my choice to be a vegetarian or vegan is to make it personal. Let them know why I made to decision without making a statement about the world. For instance "I disagree with the way animals are treated on large farms" as opposed to "the way animals are treated is horrible." This way if someone is actually curious they will continue the conversation. If they were hoping you would attack their choices, you havent and they cant really continue the argument.
Bottom line though, people really shouldn't be offended by your choice to not eat meat. I have most often found they just don't understand why you would stop.
Sorry for the ramble. Hope it helps :)

I have been a vegetarian since I was 10 (I am now 27) and I have always answered with "its a personal choice that I made a long time ago and am committed to". Usually this comes up when you are eating or about to eat so I don't go into details because I don't think its very polite but I always offer to talk about it with them at another time if they want more details. For me its that whole blood and flesh thing I can't get over but I see nothing wrong with other people eating meat responsibly and in moderation and I am more then willing to listen to anyone as long as I don't feel like it's a heated debate and they are trying to convert me.

I was a vegetarian for a number of years (along with the rest of my family), and I simply avoided pointing it out in any way. If you do not comment on your food choices, no one else does either. The only time it may come up is if your host asks about any food issues when issuing an invitation to a meal.

Drawing attention to your vegetarianism is like congratulating yourself for giving someone a present; bad form. The point is not to make other people uncomfortable (although Clode seems to disagree with that), but to make decisions for yourself and your life. Period.

My mother would make comments like laburke8, and it led to the demise of any social life outside other vegetarians. If you are okay with that, so be it. But just realize that you are not going to make yourself very popular.

It sounds like you're coming from a place that "I just decided this is the best thing for me." Maybe just saying that -- people ask why you're a vegetarian, and you just say "It's something I wanted to do for myself" or "it's the conclusion I came to when I was deciding how to deal with these questions" or whatever. You know, give the reasons you came to, but say "I decided" and "for me" a lot.

That tends to unconciously send the subtext that "this is just my business, but I'm cool with what the rest of y'all do."

I agree with keeping it light and making sure you know why you're doing it! I've only been vegetarian for a year, and I get the question all the time - usually when people ask me to try something that they're eating that has meat in it and I politely decline.

When people ask, I say it's for personal and health reasons, that I feel better eating a vegetarian diet and that it works well for me.

Don't lose sight of the "you" in "your" decision. Cheesy, I know, but I think it's important to remember that your food choices are all about your needs and beliefs.

@mschatelaine I don't disagree with that at all. I don't point out my veganism, I just don't apologize for it. If someone asks "Why are you vegan?" You can bet my answer will be "Why do you eat meat?"

I just started trying the vegan thing about a month ago. The short answer I give people is "it's better for me, it's better for animals, and it's better for the earth." Just about everyone I've said that to agrees with me.

Sometimes if I also ask if they've ever seen "Scott Pilgrim vs. the World" and then wink mysteriously. ;)

I became a vegetarian a year and a half ago, and realize it's a very personal decision. I have no issues with other people eating meat, but my personal experiences made it the right choice for me.

I was on an organic farm in Italy, feeding baby goats by hand and asked a few days later to round them up for their "final destination". It became a lot more real than the packages in the supermarket.

The question "but what do you eat??" frustrates me. I eat everything they eat, but without the meat.

Mind you, I miss spaghetti carbonara.

This is a great question! Living in Texas, I encounter a lot of people who are perplexed by my lifestyle choice. My response to questions usually depends on the situation- for example, if we are eating during the conversation. If we are not eating, I tell them that I saw a film on meat production, and decided to take it easy on meat for a while, and then loved the way it made me feel (or that it helped with a few health problems). I usually acknowledge that different things work for different bodies, and under no circumstances guilt anyone on their choices.

It can be difficult to swallow for some, but usually the decision and commitment of vegetarianism/veganism is personal and complex.

I find that the trickiest situations for me are when people ask me the details of my diet- for example, I occasionally eat dairy, but never eggs or fish or meat of any kind (chicken is not vegetarian, Texans!). I agree with @cmcinnyc, and find that people who are argumentative will usually hunt for some inconsistency, hypocrisy or extremism on your part. At that point I usually smile and change the subject.

Lastly, when I am in a situation where I am being served food (say at a party or dinner party) I usually don't mention it (unless I have an opportunity to in advance). I never want to make anyone feel bad for not being prepared, even if that means I need to sneak some crackers later on or eat before I go. I also will ask who I am with to not make a fuss about the lack of veg food. The negative emotion the host experiences in the moment will not necessarily ensure that they will be prepared in the future. I also find that being combative or using emotionally charged language does more to confirm for skeptics that you are a crazy/hippie/fanatic, so if you are happy to "spread the word on vegetarianism," I would tone down the rhetoric. Sorry for the long post, I love this question!

@Clode: That's not a very helpful answer, and it also assumes the person asking is a meat-eater, when they might be a vegetarian but not vegan. I don't think that kind of thing is at all socially helpful.

Let's turn this around...What if you asked a Jain (who would not eat root vegetables or onion/garlic) why they don't eat roots, and they turned around and asked you "how could you eat root vegetables?!?." You would be baffled and wonder why they were assuming you would follow their religion or their protocol for eating. The conversation would stop there. If on the other hand they said, "well, it's part of my religion which supports the spirit of non-violence, and here are the reasons this is codified... And by the way there are so many great traditional Jain dishes! You should let me make you my squash koftas sometime - they are amazing!"

If the goal is to cause social friction, and to stop dialogue, well then your response is a good approach. If the goal is to share, educate and make your friends and acquaintances interested in your choices, well then it would fail.

As an omnivore, I think Coffeeshakti's approach (personalizing the decision, avoiding inflammatory judgemental language) is probably the best way to affirm your values without causing offense or a confrontation. Certainly, you shouldn't have to apologize for your decision.

You also don't owe anyone an explanation, so if for some reason you aren't up to an in-depth discussion of the issue, or you think someone's just spoiling for a fight, it's ok to not give any explanation at all.

@rachdez: There's a big south asian population in many of the cities in TX, notably Houston. No worries there about finding Texans who "get" vegetarianism!

Clode - Because it's delicious. After all, if God hadn't meant us to eat animals, they wouldn't be so tasty. Seriously, though, do you really think that telling people they're participating in rape and murder is at all appropriate? Or that you'll get any response other than hostility? If you want to have a frank, open discussion about the effects of mass antibiotic use, CAFOs, etc., that's fine - but choose the time and place. You wouldn't start lecturing a stranger holding an infant on SIDS, would you?

Oh, and before you start proselytizing, be sure you're not eating any soy products - soybean farms can be extremely detrimental to the environment, and are one of the most widely used GMOs around. (Though personally I have no problem with GM crops themselves, just the policies Monsanto has concerning them. But I know most of the "you're raping Mother Earth!" types think they're the devil incarnate.)

I don't think you *have* to be vague, but I do find that generally, when people ask "why," they're really just looking to find out whether you're doing it for 1. ethics, 2. health, or 3. a combination of the two. Brief answers usually satisfy their curiosity. Sure, certain people will be ready with glib or even hostile comments, but I just make a joke and move along.

Don't want to offend anyone? Give a reason that's out of your control. Your stomach's been hurting all your life; you finally went to see a doctor; referred you to a dietician; dietician didn't work; you checked out some holistic methods; they recommended you cut out meat from your diet because of some crazy chemical reaction; suddenly you're stomach pain-free.

I've been a vegetarian for 14 years (since age 10), and I agree with others that keeping it personal, and adding a bit of humor where appropriate, usually works well. Being veg is something I take quite seriously, but I wouldn't push my beliefs and practices onto others without being asked. If people ask what category my reasons fall into, I'll tell them, and if they don't, I won't.

Having been veg through a conservative high school where some people were more combative about my choices, I find it often deflects a lot of criticism to light-heartedly say, "The way I see it, the less meat I eat, the more there is for people who want to eat it!". I understand those who discuss their vegetarianism in terms of what should happen in the world, and I do hold many of those beliefs, but I am more comfortable keeping the conversation personal and non-proselytizing, especially with people I don't know very well.

First and foremost, congratulations on your choice! This thread is likely to get hostile from both the omnivore/herbivore sides (don't get discouraged!) so I just want to tell you that in my experience it was one of the best choices I ever made.

I've been a vegetarian for 5 years, and it's true in my experience that most people when they are asking why you are vegetarian are trying to pick a fight (because most known reasons for why people become vegetarian are well known), although some are truly interested in the answer.

I try to think about it like religion. People of different religions have strong beliefs and disagree and it's better to accept that people are going to react with hostility sometimes to your opinions and life choices regardless of what your answer is. However, people in your life who care about you will most likely be fine with your choice and not be rude about it. They may be curious of course, because most people cannot imagine living without meat. If someone is rude or obnoxious about the fact that I'm a vegetarian it's a pretty good bet that we're not going to get along in general and I don't have to worry about their opinions.

When someone asks me about why I'm a vegetarian, I tell them the truth - I don't think anything that has a conscious should have to die unnecessarily so that I can live. I think a meaningful non abrasive answer to this question is important.

I know you're going to do this based on your post but for the rest of the veg world - crazy extremest answers like "MEAT IS MURDER" are not going to win any converts and are the least intelligent way to go about starting any sort of conversation are going to get you treated like an extremist, just like the crazy religious people with sandwich boards screaming about how the lord will save your soul from eternal damnation. Even those who agree with your end goal dislike you because you make any sort of intelligent conversation on the topic at hand that much more difficult.

You'll find that a lot of people will respond with "but meat is delicious", "more meat for me", "I'll just eat twice as much", "Plants have feelings too" etc. regardless of your answer. Most of these are so stupid that I stare at the person like they are an idiot and shake my head disapprovingly. The only exception being the "meat is tasty" argument. With that one, I agree meat is tasty, but as a being capable of higher thought I'm able to realize that some things are more important then the taste of one food group. Vegetarian food is amazingly tasty too and I wish you lots of luck :)

I am not a vegetarian yet, but I am in the process. I am currently cooking only vegetarian food in my home but I sometimes take a taste of something nonvegaterian in a resterant. I find it that if I tell people I am in the process of changing my diet I get a backlash. Instead, I just quietly order vegetarian dishes become its just my preference and avoid meat dishes in buffet style dinners. No one really notices that I avoid the meat. Hope that helps.

Elona
www.eatingatelonas.com

I always start with something like, "...a lot of reasons, really, but mostly environmental and health concerns." If people want to talk about it further, I am more than happy to discuss my beliefs. If you talk in terms of your personal choice, you'll get better results (it's like using I-statements in conflict resolution). I try to stay serene and positive. Stay calm (even if someone's being a jerk), know that you're not going to convert anyone over appetizers, and keep it upbeat (people who do want to learn more about animal rights and environmental exploitation will seek you out). I usually close with something like, "It's not a choice I expected to make in my life, but I'm really glad I did. It's a healthy, environmentally sound way to eat, I've learned a ton about cooking, and I have so much more energy now!" That usually leaves little room for conflict.

@DCarl1 So true! I live in Montrose in Houston now (and went to school in Austin), and there is a great restaurant scene here, and lots of options. Living in College Station for years was not at all vegetarian-friendly. So glad to be able to eat out now! :D

Yikes!!! I meant "I know you're NOT going to do this based on your post but for the rest of the veg world...."

:(

you can also say you simply don't like meat. i know many vegetarians who are just grossed out by looking at meat or don't like the taste of it.

I've been a vegetarian for sixteen years, since Thanksgiving Day when I was 11. People have made some great comments, but the truth is if someone is asking, they generally fall into two groups: benignly curious or defensive/ridiculing. If I think it's the former, I usually say the truth: that it's a personal decision because I don't feel right eating animals. If it's the latter, I try to keep it simple and just say it's personal. These people will generally push the issue, and either berate me, telling me that what I do doesn't make a difference or I'm wearing leather or eat eggs or whatever, or they will ridicule me, and tell me that for every animal I don't eat they'll eat three, or give that stupid line about God making animals tasty. Just remember, your decision was for you, not to proselytize others, so just change the subject. Fighting back won't change their mind or yours. I generally cut the berater off with, "It's my decision, and my decisions don't reflect in any way on yours, so let's talk about something else."

Honestly, if you decide to stay a vegetarian, you will hear every line a million times. People will quote you things they've seen on bumper stickers, yell at you about PETA, ask you how you know vegetables don't feel pain, tell you fish and chickens are stupid, remind you that humans are at the top of the food chain, etc. Just hold your head up high for sticking to your convictions, and move on. If people want to be offended, they will be.

I haven't found many people eager to be jerks about my diet. I don't eat meat because I don't like meat--it's that simple. Some people don't like fresh tomatoes or cilantro or any number of other things. I don't like meat. When it's a personal preference like that, people don't have anything to argue with you about--and you're clearly not judging them, which seems to be your concern.

@sudenveri So let me get this straight, you completely understand how animals are treated/abused and then killed and you are 100% fine with it. If this is the case, why do you care if Dan tells you the truth, that you are contributing to this when you eat meat? It's not Dan's problem that the animals are abused and killed, and he is merely stating a fact.

Relating this to a mother holding and infant and SIDS is absurd.This hypothetical person is asking ME why I'm vegan, I'm not just approaching someone eating a burger on the street to have this conversation.

For the record, I don't eat any crappy "soy products" as they are totally unnecessary in a vegan diet. Those products are primarily consumed by vegetarian college students or others finding their way to a cruelty-free life.

Clode - Did I say that? I don't recall enumerating my sources of meat, or even mentioning what kind of meat I eat. I recall making a joke, then asking you about your sense of propriety (and based on your response, I don't think you understand what the words "rape" and "murder" actually mean). I ask again - do you really think that telling someone they're participating in rape and murder is going to engender a useful dialogue?

I've been meat free for 15 years and vegan for 8 of those. I find the best thing to do is simply tell people, "I'm vegan." Some people will react to this badly, but if there mere fact of me stating that I'm vegan feels threatening to them, frankly, it's not my problem.

I actually wrote a blog about this kind of stuff too (sorry - I'm not spamming, it's really relevant to the question!): www.toovegantofunction.wordpress.com

It's about vegan stuff, but applies pretty well to vegetarianism too.

Just say you're allergic! That usually stops the conversation from getting awkward!

I have been through many awkward moments and this is the best response I have used with people that are looking for a fight.

You don't necessarily need to give a reason. Just say, "I decided to go vegetarian." If someone asks why, I don't think it's a big deal to tell them that you don't like meat or dead animals make you sad.

As long as you aren't running around saying things like, "Ugh meat is so disgusting! I do not want to see your pile of chicken bones! Yuck get that plate of rib tips away from me!" people are not going to be offended.

I think it's useful to be honest about why YOU do or do not eat meat. I am not using the words rape or murder, I was replying to someone else that mentioned that scenario. If that's how someone views the torture that is done to animals, he is free to express it. I don't argue semantics, as I am no longer in college, but female animals are absolutely raped. There is an actual area on factory farms called "Rape Rack" where a farm worker shoves a metal rod in their vagina and spew sperm into it. How is that not rape?
From the dictionary: murder: to kill intentionally and with premeditation. Yes, we usually use murder to describe the killing of another human being, but it is also the perfect word to affix to any killing of ANY species of animal who has his life unfairly taken from him without just cause.
Do I think the use of these words is necessary? It engaged you. You are obviously very immune to the violence committed against animals, but others are naive to the violence and once they know the truth about the horrendous life and death of a meat animal, they walk away from meat for life. I've seen it happen, I've seen lives changed by honest dialogue.

I've been a vegetarian for 6 years and I can totally understand why you'd worry about this. Even though we shouldn't apologize for what we eat, the truth is that a lot of omnis are right down hostile, misinformed, and sometimes scared of veg lifestyles.

I would suggest you don't bring it up until it needs to be brought up. No need to send out an announcement about it. But if someone invites you to dinner at their house, then you can mention that you're vegetarian now and that you'd love to bring a dish for dinner for yourself and the group.

I don't think it's necessary to say why you're veg. If you're asked, then just be honest, but tread lightly. I usually say that when I became a pet owner, I looked and related to animals differently so I didn't want to eat them anymore. Other people say that they became more aware of factory farming practices or the impact on the environment and that a veg life fit into their ideology. You'll figure out how to maneuver through it. Oh and be ready for all kinds of silly questions (is fish meat? where do you get protein?).

It's always been beyond me that "militant" vegans such as @clode can preach against the violence of consuming animal products by using such violent language/means of communication.

Like the joke goes... how do you know if someone's a vegan? Don't worry, they'll tell you.

The fact of the matter is that it's not raising animals for food that harms the earth, it's MASS PRODUCTION of animals for food that harms the earth. Just like mass production of soybeans and corn and their derivative products harm the earth. It's just that meat/dairy have always been easy targets. I'm with @sudenveri: if you're going to get up on your high horse and talk about meat eaters "raping the earth," be sure that you're consuming an all-local-and-environmentally-consciously-grown vegan diet first. That means no Earth Balance, no Silk, no out-of-season fruits and veggies unless they were locally harvested and preserved. We could take that one step farther and say no shopping at major chain supermarkets, big box stores, no clothing, household items or electronics that were mass produced in Thailand, Bangladesh, Korea by people who don't make a living wage... I could go on and on.

My point is, those of us who are conscious make the choices *we* can live with and do so thoughtfully. Those of us who are not conscious will not respond favorably to a violent defense-by-offense approach. Or, more simply, you catch more flies with honey.

Never did I engage in violent dialogue! I merely stated facts! LOL, interesting you would interpret those facts as violent yet you seem to see nothing wrong with that.

Who said anything about "raping the earth?" We're having an ethical discussion as far as I can tell, not an environmental one.

@Clode... you know nothing about me or my ethics WRT what I eat, so how would you know what I do or don't have a problem with?

As for the environmental vs ethical discussion, I think they're one and the same. I don't think it's ethical to treat HUMANS the way we do, and I don't think it's ethical to destroy the planet. But that's *MY* decision. I don't try to take a "moral high ground" posture over others who think or choose differently. My point is simply this: we all make choices, and no one is perfect, so if you're going to start attacking people for their dietary choices (or even using your "best defense is a good offense approach to "explaining" *your* dietary choices), it's probably best that you first check to be sure you don't live in a glass house.

Clode - Well, I suppose it's my fault for trying to engage with someone who would defend a fellow vegan's use of "raping the earth" rhetoric. You, my friend, are why some omnivores get hostile at the mere mention of vegetarianism and veganism. Ah, well - you know what they say about arguing on the internet.

Please DO NOT say you are allergic. I am both vegetarian and I have a life-threatening allergy to certain tree nuts. As an allergy sufferer, the more people who say they don't eat something because they are "allergic" rather than fessing up and saying that it's their personal choice the more people stop believing me when I try to explain that I am ACTUALLY allergic to something. If you don't like say, onions, just say "I don't like onions". DO NOT say "I am allergic to onions".

Instead, just tell the truth and frame it in a "for me" context. If people are hostile to that they are just jerks. For me, it's not hard to explain since I grew up keeping kosher and meat/milk were always seperated in my life and I ended up default eating vegetarian when we ate out (since mostly I was eating at non-kosher restaurants which didn't serve kosher meat). Therefore, I never ate all that much meat in the first place - and even less when I got to college and didn't want to eat in the Kosher dining hall because none of my friends ate there.

For whatever reason, people are more willing to accept this religious argument than some argument based on health, sustainability, and animal cruelty. I think it makes them feel less bad about themselves and less like I'm "judging them" on some ethical issue.

I can't imagining asking anyone WHY they are! It's a personal choice. I don't care if someone is or isn't as long as I'm not feeding them. I'd file it under "None o' my business"

I have been a vegetarian since the age of 5 (my choice) and think @cmcinnyc's answer is spot-on. You'll learn how to tell whether someone is genuinely curious or just wants to be combative and you can tailor your answer to the type of interaction you prefer. I generally say "for ethical reasons" and then focus on all the wonderful ingredients and cuisines that a vegetarian can eat.

I have unintentionally "converted" many people to vegetarianism in my time and it has always been by example and open-hearted conversation rather than hostility or persuasion.

How about this: If they're your friends, they'll be supportive (at least once they realize you're serious about it and have good reasons). If they're not supportive of your choices, they're probably not people you want in your life anyway.

I guess as always, I am a fish out of water here. I feel passionate about the rights of all living things and I am extremely unapologetic. As far as the argument that one should check they don't live in a "glass house," I certainly don't. I find that MOST vegans are largely compassionate and ethical in every aspect of their lives. It is only when I feel something is extremely out of order (such as, how to tiptoe around a meat eater so as not to offend them) that I even bring up veganism in a public forum. If people like me aren't using terms that are straight and honest, like "rape" and "murder" who will? Do we just live behind the curtain forever, pretending our farms are red-roofed sanctuaries where animals roam free and are "humanly" killed? It's just a lie, and I refuse to protect it.

If someone asks why I'm ordering a veggie entree instead of the steak special, I tell him or her that I don't really care for meat, which happens to be true. The only time I make a point of bringing it up is when I'm being invited to a dinner where the hosts about dietary restrictions. I find that most people are welcoming enough as long as you're not trying to take away their bacon or steaks, but I'm also not terribly dogmatic — I'll grill my veggies on something that's had burgers on it.

I eat vegan or vegetarian a lot of the time, as I love Indian food, and cook it at home out of choice. But I'm also happy to eat goat, offal, fish and pretty much any other meat product. I eat a vegetarian diet 90% of the time though.
I never find that when I express a preference for eating vegetarian rather than eating meat people get sniffy. I think it's because I always state it as a personal preference, I don't get all confrontational about it, and I don't tell them what they should be eating. I just say, "I prefer vegetarian." Period. Hard to argue with a preference. What are they going to do - tell me what my tastebuds should enjoy?

I would never say I am a vegetarian, because I am CLEARLY not, but I find when I tell people I prefer to eat that way they accept it just fine.

Wow. So many of these posts sound so very angry.

I agree with most of the posters here in that Paige shouldn't apologize for her choice. But since she recently switched, I can see why friends would be curious.

Paige, I suggest you answer your friend's questions honestly and succinctly as possible. They can always ask more questions if they want to. Humor is good. It says a lot about you that you're worried you'll insult your friends somehow -- but they're your friends and it was your personal choice. If you don't accuse them of anything (directly or indirectly) they shouldn't take offense.

You are under no obligation, Paige, to explain why you choose to follow a vegetarian diet. You can say, "I feel better eating this way." End of discussion.

I've been a vegetarian (well, pescatarian now) for 9 years. I simply tell people that I just don't like meat. I say it in a friendly, non-judgmental way. They don't need to know all the reasons why I don't like it. Look, I understand that many people feel strongly about animal cruelty and that vegetarianism is often directly related to firm moral beliefs. But I think we need to understand that to eat or to not eat animals is a personal choice, one that many people are defensive over, and you're only going to alienate and upset people if imply that they're bad people for their personal choices. If you come to the table with an open mind, they are more likely to listen to you and might learn something. If you open with the murder thing though, I'm afraid you won't have a very productive conversation.

I think this is a great question and one that will never stopped being asked of you regardless of how long you have been a vegetarian. I have been one for 10 years and have honestly found that the answer can change for you until you find something comfortable for you that works across most situations. I like to say "it's not really something I think you want to hear while you nom on that steak." I find this question is asked mostly while you are eating so that answer usually puts a stop to the following "what do you eat" "How do you get your protein" questions. The fact for me is that the question is tiresome and I have spent ten years answering it so I don't feel harsh answering the way I do. Of course every situation is different so obviously that may not always be best answer.I think how direct or vague you want to be depends on the kind of person you are and there is no right or wrong answer.

Yowzas! First off, congratulations on going veg: it's an excellent choice. It IS annoying how vegetarians and vegans are (frequently) expected to defend their dietary choices whereas omnivores are usually not. However, it's usually not worth fighting about. I personally believe that circumstance largely determines our choices, but that we do have a responsibility to make the best choices that we are able to-- whatever that may mean. (Of course this is often easier said than done.) So when people ask me why I'm a *mostly vegan*, I usually just say it's because that's what feels right to me. Also, I try to set a good veggie example by eating well and cooking delicious dishes for my friends and family.

1. Don't lie. Don't make up allergies or medical conditions to justify your choice.
2. No need to make a big announcement. Most people don't care that much about what you eat. Plus, if it doesn't work out, you'll get less grief if you switch back.
3. Who are you talking to and where are you? A close friend of 10 years will be more curious. A co-worker really doesn't need to know. A formal family dinner is no time to go into possibly unpleasant/divisive details.
4. Use 'I' statements. People get offended when they think you're judging them. Keep others out of your choice.
5. Learn how to gracefully change the subject. No matter how careful you are, there's always 'that person' out there that wants to pick a fight. Or it just might not be the time or place to discuss it. Learn how to get off the topic and know that with some people, you'll just have to suck it up and let them have the last word in order to keep the peace.

the big thing for me is to not be militant; it just turns people off.

I tell people that " I started for the health of the earth, I continue for my health"; and then continue on (if they ask) with statistics on meat production (20 lbs of grain-> 1 lb of meat, water usage, land usage, waste management... etc).

and that I won't tell anyone else what to eat, and I don't want anyone telling me what to eat.

and any friend (one EX-boyfriend did this once) that puts meat on your plate is NOT your friend. (he loved meat...I became a vegetarian the week b4 we started dating; he acted as if I went veg to spite him...sigh...I'm married to a wonderful man now who loves his vegetables and is glad of all the weight he lost now that he eats meat 1-2x a week only)

Keeping it light and brief is generally a good idea. What I normally say is I went vegetarian years ago because I don't like meat and vegan for health reasons, and it really wasn't a big deal because I haven't been able to eat dairy in years.

And if they want to know more I let my geek out and tell them that the real clincher for me was a study that I was reading about in a nutrition class. The study compared blood triglyceride levels of omnivores, vegetarians and vegans. The levels of the vegetarians and omnivores were virtually identical but vegans had levels on par with children, so I decided since I have a lot of family with heart problems and I was practically vegan anyways I would just go for it :) Putting it in those kind of terms tends to be helpful, like you actually are a smart person and if they want more information they could ask you but you aren't looking for a fight.

When I was a vegetarian and I got these questions, I always answered with, "Because I hate vegetables and I want them all to die." It always got a rise out of people. If they kept asking, I was honest with them -- that I stopped eating meat out for taste reasons and adopting a veggie diet made me feel better and made my hair shinier, so I kept on not eating meat.

Unless you used to be a die hard carnivore, I don't think anyone's going to be too curious. If anything, I got more strange looks and probing questions from my friends when I started eating meat again than when I stopped.

I agree that you don't need to defend your dietary choices, and that generally there isn't a reason to bring it up, with the exception of certain contexts.

I'm an omnivore and former vegetarian, so take this next part with a grain of salt, but I caution against a vague "I don't think animals should be hurt so I can eat" argument. Small animals (rodents and birds) are killed by agriculture every time the soil is tilled, so unless you purely gather fruits and greens in the wild, our food production (even locally) does kill animals. But I'm not saying to shy away from more specific reasons about CAFOs and other aspects of the meat and animal product industries, or that not wanting to eat animals isn't reason enough. I'm just saying that's one of the few vague answers that invites argument.

Anyway, choosing to eat a certain way for any reason at all should be respected. :)

I've been amazed at how understanding most people are. I've only had a couple of people really make me feel like I had to defend my position. So to those particular people I just said, "I like to know where my food comes from, that's all. If I don't know where it comes from, I don't eat it."

I almost always just say, "I don't like the taste of meat." If anyone continues to provoke me about it, I usually say, "I'm sure there are foods you don't like either but I'm not going to encourage you to try them."

Truthfully, nobody has given me a hard time except my brother who continues to want to eat extra meat around me because he thinks it bothers me (it doesn't).

veg*ns who actually feel strongly about animal rights should keep in mind that it is meat-eaters that should have to explain themselves, not those who do their best to avoid contributing to violence. if you think veg*nism is the ethically correct choice, why would you go out of one's way to make someone else feel comfortable about participating in something you know to be abhorrent? if animal rights concerns are the primary reasons for one's dietary choices, why not own that? if you understand that animals are our equals in suffering, defend them as you would a human.

it is interesting that some commenters have been chastised for being angry and, er, "violent." come on! these are words! this is a discussion in an internet forum! the actual violence is taking place on the farms and slaughterhouses, and is funded by consumers of animal products everywhere. an omnivore's dinner contains far more violence than any rage I could express in pixels.

Definitely you should pick fights and troll the commenters on a recipe blog because you feel SO STRONGLY ABOUT THE ISSUE.

Paige, I think the fact that you are concerned shows that you will be fine. You know your friends better than we do, so think about situations in which the topic might come up. If a friend asks seriously, give them an honest and thoughtful answer. If it's a dinner party or night out, give a casual and lighthearted answer. I'm sure it will turn out just fine!

if you think veg*nism is the ethically correct choice, why would you go out of one's way to make someone else feel comfortable about participating in something you know to be abhorrent?

The same logic could be applied to homosexuality - if you truly believe that it's an abomination before God, you're perfectly justified in telling a homosexual couple that they're going to burn in Hell for all eternity unless they repent their sinful ways.

In other words, your morals are not universal, and proselytizing makes you an asshole.

I agree with bakedleech. I have to say I'm surprised at the number of pissy vegans/veggies have responded. I thought everyone knew that the vogue of being defensive and judgemental was long passed.
I've been veg since I was 9 (aka 23 years) and was ridiculed by my extended family for YEARSbecause of it. I think I get away with just being honest because it's a part of who I am and I'm comfortable with it (after decades of trial by fire :-). I bet you could do the same.

If someone asks you, then aren't they opening the door for themselves to be offended? There are really only a couple of reasons people become vegetarian. One reason is a belief about animals, the other major one is to improve one's health. Either reason could offend someone (I am sure there are other obscure reasons.) So, I say be honest, and if someone is offended, you can tell them that you don't want to argue, that you were simply responding to a question they asked. I don't think you should be really in your face about it, but something tells me that if you care enough to ask about it, you wouldn't be that way.

Well, sure. You can go around telling people you disagree with their morals and that your system of behavior is superior. It won't win them over though, it will just make them think you are a big jerk who gets off on telling others what to do.

@sudenveri

"In other words, your morals are not universal, and proselytizing makes you an asshole."

YAY!!!!

All the comments this has generated really proves the point, exemplifying why you might be scared to answer the question when you do get asked. Conversely, I was scared to tell all my vegetarian friends that I had started eating meat again when I stopped restricting myself to the veg about two years ago. I've come to the conclusion that food choices are very personal, and if you don't feel comfortable telling people your reasoning you shouldn't have to. It's a personal choice is a sufficient answer in my opinion. And if you do choose to share, being honest and giving reasons you actually believe in is key to coming accross as sincere rather than rude.

@sudenveri - thanks for your great advice on never standing up for what one feels, and introducing yet another totally unrelated topic to the discussion.

you've entirely missed the point--again. stating the reasons behind your dietary preferences--when asked--is not at all the same as accosting a homosexual couple who did not engage you in a conversation on homosexuality.

Omnivore here. And I do ask people why they became a vegetarian sometimes. I assure you, I am not trying to pick a fight or ridicule them, but I am curious how and why they came to that decision. While many people know the reasons for becoming a vegetarian, they don't know why YOU became a vegetarian. Paige, it's nice that you are trying not to offend people and trying to be a good embassador. Clode, if you want other people to become vegetarians, you may want to follow Paige's lead. BTW, some people may be considering becoming vegetarians themselves and are interested in finding out more about your path. For those people who are asking out of genuine interest, I think you should answer truthfully and nicely: "I'm concerned about the welfare of animals/the environment," or "I just think it's healthier," or whatever your reasons.

I must say, in the 35+ years I've been a vegetarian, many friends and several family members have become vegetarians, too. I am the person who gets approached for recipes and advice. Why? Because I'm not the person who lectured them. Because I'm the person who's not fat. Because I'm the person who looks 10 years younger than her age. Because I have a reputation in my family as a really good cook, and always make/bring something delicious, with no comment on its meatlessness.

If you want to confront and antagonize, go ahead. Even Dan, dear old Dan, decided he was getting worn out by the constant arguments and decided to find himself some gentler replies.

I've been a vegetarian for 23 years (since age 13), and have not been able to eat dairy for the last 7 years. I am happy to say that I have never had a hostile encounter about my dietary choices. I've had many curious questions, many interesting discussions, and even had someone (a middle school student) ask if I was going to be a nun. Still not sure how that last one makes any sense. When people ask why I don't eat meat, I tell them very politely and matter-of-factly that I decided long ago that I couldn't kill something and eat it, so I didn't feel it was fair for me to buy it in a store. I always follow up with a statement about the fact that it is my choice, and I don't have a problem with other people eating what they chose to eat. I've found that's the best way to start an intelligent, non-confrontational discussion. I like to think that I've brought more people over to my "side" with this tactic than others.

I think it is all in how you say it, your attitude towards others when you say it, and how defensive you chose to be about it. If you are defensive, pushy, or hostile towards other people's choices, you are more likely to offend them and give them a reason to NOT see the wisdom in your choices. I'd hazard a guess that's true for just about anything.

LOL! Next up: @sudenveri compares vegans to nazis.

@cmcinnyc (sort of) and whoever else: i wouldn't say i lecture or assume a position of superiority on these matters, but i am direct and i never, ever sugar coat the issues. yet i too am approached for by non-veg*ns for recipes (today, in fact) and advice, and i too have seen friends go veg*n as a response. different approaches work for different people. with that in mind, why not just say what you feel? i mean, don't get yourself fired, etc., but there is no reason compromise your beliefs or your well-informed message, if you have one, to accommodate the status quo.

pharaoh - Like Clode, you're missing the point. You can stand up for what you believe in - like I told Clode, if you want to have a frank and open discussion about CAFOs, by all means, go ahead - but you need to do so in a way that's respectful to others. Using rhetoric like "rape and murder" is extremely confrontational and disrespectful, not to mention ineffective. Calling someone a disgusting rapist murderer for eating a hamburger won't convince them of anything except that you're a jackass. Even if they initiate a conversation about dietary choices, there's a HUGE difference between saying "I didn't feel right supporting commercial meat farming practices" (which opens the door to a more in-depth discussion about said practices), and "Factory farms are raping Mother Earth, torturing innocent animals, and anyone who eats meat is a murderer!" It's all in the presentation.

Oh, and my analogy is apt. I'm assuming that Paige is concerned with situations such as dinner parties and the like, where she has to make her restrictions known, or when an old acquaintance asks why she's not ordering a meat-based dish she was apt to in the past. It's the same sort of situation as when a nosey relative asks a GLBT individual why they're not married yet, or when they're going to bring their (opposite-gendered) boy/girlfriend to meet the family. If nosey Aunt Mabel really feels that those terrible gays are corrupting America and they're going to burn in hell, that's her prerogative - but Aunt Mabel still needs to keep her big yap shut and respect others.

Clode - Godwin says you lose.

Q: "Why did you become a vegetarian?"
A: "Why haven't you become a vegetarian?"

There. Now you're both on equal ground. Have at it.

@sudenveri, 3:51pm - yes, so much is dependent upon the delivery of the message. for instance, you've convinced me over the course of this thread that you are a huge jackass; i've probably just done the same for you regarding myself. but i am okay with that.

i find the rape and murder of animals to be far more troubling than talking about the conditions of farming (rape and murder) as they actually are. actually, i'm less likely to use those words at the outset of any discussion, but i don't take issue with them in the least.

anyhow, i welcome whatever critiques follow from you. i exult in the differences between us.

pharaoh - There's a difference between sugar-coating a message and being unduly confrontational. You can point out the problems you perceive in the commercial meat system when asked, but you don't have to use words like "murder" and "violence." Talk about overuse of antibiotics and MRSA, talk about the environmental impact of the giant ponds of feces at CAFOs (calling it a "lagoon" would be sugar-coating), talk about animal rights if you think you've got a receptive audience - but that's the key. If you want o persuade, you need to cultivate a receptive audience, and the best way to do that is to speak respectfully. That's the big point that I think you and (to a much greater extent) Clode are missing.

Where's Dale Carnegie when you need him?

pharaoh - I find it unbelievably ironic that you think I'm a jackass for saying we should show respect for other people. I also think that claiming you exult in the differences between us is naive at best and disingenuous at worst. After all, I'm simply standing up for what I believe in, and not sugar-coating my message. If I'm a jackass - well, takes one to know one, eh?

Someone in this long list of posts made a good point that if someone asks in a confrontational why you're a vegetarian/vegan, then you simply ask them back why they eat meat.

Paige asked "When people ask why I am a vegetarian, what do I tell them without condemning their choice to eat meat?... I really don't want to offend anyone, infringe upon people's right to make their own choices, or be a bad ambassador for vegetarianism."

Given the context of what she asked, many responses don't answer her particular question. Even if one feels justified in condemning others, she doesn't want to

Foodefafa had some lovely suggestions, I'll reiterate them briefly:

"1. Don't lie. Don't make up allergies or medical conditions to justify your choice.
2. No need to make a big announcement. Most people don't care that much about what you eat. Plus, if it doesn't work out, you'll get less grief if you switch back.
3. Who are you talking to and where are you? A close friend of 10 years will be more curious. A co-worker really doesn't need to know. A formal family dinner is no time to go into possibly unpleasant/divisive details.
4. Use 'I' statements. People get offended when they think you're judging them. Keep others out of your choice.
5. Learn how to gracefully change the subject. No matter how careful you are, there's always 'that person' out there that wants to pick a fight. Or it just might not be the time or place to discuss it. Learn how to get off the topic and know that with some people, you'll just have to suck it up and let them have the last word in order to keep the peace."

I will add though - many, many people are totally unaware of what the ethical reaons are to not eat meat, and/or what the environmental reasons are, or the food supply reasons are. Hitting them over the head makes them defensive and confused.

The objective isn't to drown people in information and confusion and guilt, it's to give them new chunks of information so that at the very least, they've learned something new, and perhaps it causes some new questions.

Oh my god, by the time someone mentions Nazis, a discussion has reached the point of total absurdity. The last defense of the shrill is to compare fill-in-the-blank-here-with-a-thing-I-hate to Nazis.

Time to move on to new posts...

for the record, no one compared ANYTHING to Nazis. I suggested that someone's reply was so absurd that the next ploy would be the ever-ridiculous Nazi Card. Can people still read? Just curious.

Omnivore here. I for one, believe that I should eat animals. There. I said it :) I am not saying that I believe YOU should eat animals. Eat whatever you like!

Yes, I know the arguments for and against vegetarianistm/veganism. I think they are sound arguments. I also believe there are sound arguments for the opposite so do what you would like to do :) I am glad when I hear someone is able to find a way to eat/live that works for them, truly I am.

Personally, I feel asking someone why they eat the way they eat is a bit rude (at least to a virtual stranger). Condeming or praising for eating one way or the other I find odd as well.

This reminds me of a discussion around drinkers versus non-drinkers...people have very personal reasons for choosing to eat meat/drink alcholol etc. I love alcohol, but if me or one of my friends turns down a drink, you would think we were spitting in the hostess face or something...people feel as though they really have a stake (hah!) in the way you live your life. odd.

It's amazing how defensive people get and how many arguments are started over personal decisons.

For me, I try to eat animals that are treated and killed humanely as much as possible. I avoid "cheap meats" with a lot of additives. I would rather pay an extra dollar or so per pound to ensure they are treated well. I believe they deserve a good life, I also believe in the circle of life. I hope that as we progress more stores will act responsibly and give as much info as possible around how the animals were treated, what they were fed etc. Yes I want to know these things. However, I will do the best I can with the information I have in the meantime. I would like to not be judged one way or the other for that.

I tried different ways of eating b/c I suffer from a lot of stomach issues (that I would rather not go into). I've seen countless doctors, have run countless tests. I have recently cut out dairy and gluten and am getting some relief....I will not touch soy or soy products, I am also starting to cut out eggs b/c I seem to have issues with them as well. Protein from meat and also veggies seems to be about the only thing I can eat that doesn't destroy my stomach. Therefore, I went back to eating it and I ENJOY IT .

As an omnivore, I think the best answer is lighthearted and nonjudgemental. "I eat like this b/c works for me - I feel best when I eat this way".

If you find yourslef apologizing or sweeping it under the rug, try to realize you are not speaking to a real friend and go talk to someone else :) Real friends would not make you feel bad for choosing a different lifestyle.

People who cry "rape" and "murder" lose a lot of credibility in my world. If you show people respect, they will typically show you respect in return.

You can love animals and not want to cause harm to them, but artificially inseminating a cow is not the same as a woman or man being violently sodomized against their will. Slaughtering a chicken for sustenance is not the same as shooting someone dead for money/revenge/lust.

If you want to explain in reasonable terms what happens to animals at slaughter houses, you may open up an intelligent conversation. However, just like the folks who don't think it's a good idea to say you have a food allergy, because it loses it's impact, I wouldn't want you to tell me my burger was the result of a cow being raped if I was a rape victim.

@sudenveri, i find it inconceivable that i should not use words like "murder" and "violence" to describe murder and violence. there is nothing disrespectful about telling people the truth. but in general i have more respect for animals than those complicit in animal abuse. that may come across at times in my communication, but i'm fine with that.

you are writing from the speciesist perspective that animals do not deserve the same respect and basic rights (life, liberty, pursuit of happiness) that people do, so OF COURSE you don't agree with me.

@ kristenmuller It is impossible for me to differentiate (as a victim of sexual abuse) the horror of the traumatic event of sticking a metal rod inside a cow and forcing pregnancy upon it and the anguish of a human rape of any gender. We are all living things who share the earth, we all have will to live in peace, and neither event should EVER take place. The only true difference I see is that people who eat meat willingly contribute to the trauma of another living being, whereas they denounce human rape. You will explain to me that inseminating a cow is different because it's "just a cow," but that would only reveal your ignorance about the capacity of other animals to love and live peacefully without us interfering.

I'm going to excuse myself from this weird circus of guilt ridden rhetoric, but I just want to say one last thing.

It's not about what I *think* is right and wrong or the position of my moral compass. The farming of animals and subsequent disrespect and abuse is DISGUSTING. Anyone who stops to think about where meat comes from and still eats it is missing a sensitivity chip. You are SURE that other animals deserve to languish in their own filth, suffer in pain, and be robbed of life so that YOU, superior human, may eat a burger. What a waste.

And that is all.

as someone who is not a vegetarian, but who (a) does not often choose to eat meat, and (b) has a lot of vegetarian friends, i just want to say that i've never felt personally offended by people explaining their decision to refrain from eating meat. it's their decision, just as continuing to eat meat (somewhat sparingly, but definitely still eating it) is mine. if i respect their decision, i have found they respect mine.

I forgot to add to my last reply that the term "rape" is the word the dairy and meat industry made up for it, not me. Just google "rape rack" and you'll see that is their common terminology for inseminating cows. So maybe complain to them if you're against rape instead of the person on the internet who is also against it.

I agree with Clode. I answer this question by saying, "I don't know how to stop cruelty in the slaughter industry but this way I am not participating in it." people usually are trying to
pick a fight I find. Here in Texas, I am in the minority but once in awhile this question provides an opportunity to educate people about animal treatment in the industry.

I just became a vegetarian (with strong vegan tendencies) about a year ago. I've noticed when I've had to explain my new vegetarianism to people, most often they either try to defend themselves for eating meat (thinking that I'm about to judge them), or they grill me about every single eating habit of mine. What do you eat? Do you eat eggs? How about fish? How about shellfish? Milk? Gelatin? Honey?

In my case, honesty is the best policy because I kind of fell into vegetarianism. I fell victim to food poisoning after a pork roast one day and couldn't eat anything for days. After that, meat has never had the same appeal for me. And the few times that I have tried to introduce meat back into my diet, I've always felt sick. And it just so happens that I've always hated most dairy products, so I'm an almost-vegan. I'm lucky because this story can't possibly offend anyone. If someone seems particularly receptive I will go on to explain that as I learned more about how to eat vegetarian, I learned a lot more about the benefits of such a diet for the environment, etc.

So my basic plan is to give a personal, noncombative reason (I don't like the taste, I got sick once, I feel better and more energetic, or whatever applies to you). And then if the person doesn't seem defensive then briefly outline any ethical reasons you might have. However, I usually try to frame any ethical reasons in the context of the benefits of eating vegetarian, rather than the harm of not eating vegetarian. It seems less rude to me that way.

You are absolutely going to hear the same lines over and over again. The most common for me is "humans are biologically omnivourous, we're meant to eat meat," or "my family would never allow it." The only response I ever have for these is "well, it seems to work well for me but to each his own."

Good luck!

I recently became a vegetarian too. I suffer from chronic migraines and now that I have stopped eating meat, my migraines have drastically reduced. (I should note that this isn't the case for everyone so don't take this as doctor-approved health advice. That is simply what worked for me). As some of the other commenters said, if you don't bring it up, people won't ask. However, I have noticed that some people don't believe me when I tell them I am a vegetarian and offer me meat anyways thinking that I'll eat it this one time and go back to not eating it. I don't understand that logic, but as others have mentioned, some people don't understand vegetarianism and why people would want to become one. I think cmcinnyc's suggestion of a light-hearted vague answer is the way to go.

The question I get asked all the time is not "why", it's "how do you get enough protein?" Drives me craaaaazy!

I've been a vegetarian for 17 years.

In the event that people ask, I simply tell them that I care about animals and animal rights.

I just tell people that once I started learning more about nutrition and health, I made a choice and now I feel much better. If they inquire further I tell them: I now poop every day and my body chemistry seems more level now that I'm no longer consuming antibiotics and hormones. There are also the animal cruelty reasons so sometimes I throw in a "I wouldn't eat my dog so how could I eat an innocent cow or chicken?"

With my own parents, I'm more vocal about it. I begged them to stop eating meat because they have high blood pressure and high cholesterol and I'd like to see them live a lot longer. They've done a great job with eating less of it and they admit they feel better.

I just simply tell them that I'm vegetarian because I like it, smile, then walk away.

When asked (rarely nowadays), I usually just say that animals just don't look like food to me. For me, eating a chicken or cow is no different than eating a cat or dog.

Clode,
Well I wasn't going to jump into the fray here, but the rape thing reminds me of when I worked at a veterinary emergency clinic (where as a routine part of gathering the patient's history and vitals, I would get their temperature - anally) and a client accused me of raping her kitten. Can you really not differentiate between human rape and artificial insemination? I don't think AI is a lovely experience for an animal, but it is comparable to any sort of medical intervention we would routinely perform on an animal (for instance, getting a blood sample for diagnostic or preventative testing.) Now I would say that certainly a veterinarian or trained technician should be doing the procedure, and it can be something that I would consider cruel if it is not done properly. But rape (factory farm workers' slang aside- and it's curious that you would take cues from them..)- I would not call it that, any more than I would call it rape when a veterinarian does an exam on a dog suffering from vaginitis.
At the most basic level, animals do not have human ideas of sex- AT ALL. If we're going to start throwing around the word "rape" then you should consider that "rape" is how many species breed naturally. Do you think a bull takes a cow out for dinner and drinks first? And I can also assure you that for many animals, natural breeding is physically painful. For a person, the trauma of rape is typically not just about the actual physical trauma, and in fact there may not be any physical trauma. It's the emotional and mental aspect that is the real trauma - and I can assure you, 100%, as a person who has stuck her arm up a cow's rear end they do not experience that.
Do you really think that using an inflammatory word like that is going to gain you any supporters except for people who are already on the fence? Having gone through a militant vegan phase in my teenage years, I can assure you that I did not convince ANYBODY not to order a cheeseburger by basically accusing them of rape and murder. However, in the years since, I have found great success talking to people non-confrontationally, convincing people to rethink their dietary habits from an animal welfare perspective.
You talk about respect, and that is exactly what I find KEY in this discussion. People do not order a Big Mac thinking gleefully of all the cow rape and murder they are supporting with it. Instead of making people feel bad about their choices, being confrontational and using inflammatory language - try being positive. "Hey, try this delicious eggplant." or "Hey, look, here is a local farm you can support who raises their chickens humanely, and it's only an extra $2 for a dozen eggs! That's worth $2, isn't it?" When you talk about rape and murder, you are disrespecting your conversation partner. And, sure, you may say you don't CARE about their feelings, you care about the animals, but YOU ARE ONLY HURTING THE ANIMALS WHEN YOU TURN PEOPLE AWAY. These people you are talking to are making choices that can either contribute towards animal welfare or contribute towards factory farming and cruelty - so you really SHOULD care about how they feel. Do it for the animals.

I'm definitely not veg or vegan but my husband doesn't eat chocolate, drink carbonation and we don't smoke or drink. When people ask why, he simply says "...because." If they press he says, "I just don't". Most people catch a hint and leave it at that. Saves us from a very lengthy conversation and possible negative encounter.

My advice, don't make it harder than it needs to be. Tell the truth and don't be preachy and you'll do fine. It is nice to see that you are concerned, I think you'll do just fine if confronted.

yikes everybody.. i'm saddened by all the hostility amongst people that should be on the same team. really. paige, here's your explanation.. because it makes you happy. that's all.

As a non-vegetarian, I'd say if it's a pure "don't like eating animals thing" then you should up and say it. I think eating animals is fine if they're reared and killed with care, but if someone has told me they're a vegetarian for health or finance or ecological reasons, I've sometimes offended them because I don't think they have a problem with dead animals per se.
So now I treat every vegetarian as if they don't like dead animals, whatever the reason they tell me.

This board demonstrates why vegans tend to have problems in social situations, and are often less than popular...

Nobody should have to justify their decision, nor should they try to make others feel bad about their decisions.

A former vegetarian, I never ask my vegetarian friends why they are vegetarian -- that is their business, and I respect their decision. Some of them are vegetarian for religious or cultural reasons, and some explain themselves (even though no explanation is ever necessary) that they just don't like the taste of meat.

If asked point black Paige, just say something noncommittal like "it makes me feel better" and leave it at that. I think Clode and her ilk have clearly demonstrated why their approach is not the one to take if you want to stay on good relations with your eating companions. Anything that implies that you are making a moral judgement about food is bound to make others uncomfortable and defensive.

Like I said earlier, I speak from experience. My mother, who used Clode's approach, has a knack for alienating everyone who ventured into her life, from the Korean businessman we met in a hot spring pool ("you Koreans eat dogs! How can you do that?") to countless hostesses and guests at social events. It's a losing strategy...

The fact that this quesiton even needs to be asked really says something! I've been a vegetarian for years and it really is astonishing how hostile people can get about it. I have never once told anyone what they should or should not eat yet I get it all the time. My boyfriend recently became a vegetarian and it's amazing to me how crazy his friends have been about it.

@ Tzevani who says: "For a person, the trauma of rape is typically not just about the actual physical trauma, and in fact there may not be any physical trauma. It's the emotional and mental aspect that is the real trauma - and I can assure you, 100%, as a person who has stuck her arm up a cow's rear end they do not experience that."

based on what you've said in your comment, i take it you are not a cow and cannot offer first-hand experience of the process of forced cattle insemination. taking it one step further, you also cannot offer any insight on the mental anguish a mother cow experiences after her calves are taken away from her, days after birth, every single time. (of course, if the calf is a boy, it is likely to go to a veal crate or simply be killed; if it is a girl, it will likely be made into a milk-machine like her mother.)

also, the difference between the veterinary procedures you discuss and the rape/insemination of cows, is that the latter is a process that is NOT intended to help the cow or treat an existing medical problem, AND it is cyclical, performed again and again and again; AND it is accompanied every single time by the near-immediate separation of mother and calves. have you seen first-hand the anguish of separation for both the mother and baby? there are videos on youtube, i encourage you to look them up.

you implore clode and others like him/her to explore more "positive" approaches to this discussion, and to "do it for the animals." well, how does mitigating the horrible, endless process of forced cattle insemination--saying, "really, it isn't that bad"--how does that help animals? all it does is make people feel BETTER about eating meat and dairy.

"This board demonstrates why vegans tend to have problems in social situations, and are often less than popular..."

Citation for this study on the social habits of vegans? I'm sure Natalie Portman, Thom Yorke, Alec Baldwin, Russell Simmons, and countless other public figures have such a hard time being unpopular. ALL of them are VERY outspoken vegans, by the way.

I think there is a certain type of person who can't handle vegans, sure. They are the type of person a vegan wouldn't be interested in befriending anyway. Works out perfectly in my experience.

I think there is a certain type of person who can't handle militant, ill-educated, rhetoric-spewing vegans, sure. They are the type of person a vegan like me wouldn't be interested in befriending anyway. Works out perfectly in my experience.

Fixed that for you.

I decided to become a vegetarian three years ago. It wasn't for environmental or ethical reasons, it was because I was a picky eater! I figured if I cut meat out of my diet, I'd be forced to try vegetables, legumes, etc.

I explained it as more of a personal challenge than a moral choice, and that seemed to work pretty well. Honestly, I thought after a few months I would stop, but since it's a challenge, I just keep thinking, "well, I could do another week". Three years later it's no longer a challenge, but a lifestyle!

I have veggie friends that are pretentious and practically ask for arguments about their choices, so I try to separate myself from that. Most people I eat with now know that I am, and it barely comes up anymore. But when it does, I just say that I didn't think I needed meat in my diet, and that's that.

@ sudenveri
I've stated nothing but fact.

Fact: Food animals are mistreated, forcibly impregnated and inhumanely killed, and will continue to be treated in this manner until you and other intellectually void humans evolve past "Mmmm, hamburger."

It boils down to one single thing: you are either for violence against animals or you are against it.

If you can think of a single reason that treating animals of other species worse than trash is acceptable, I'm all ears. Until then, maybe think about what you're fighting for here.

You're fighting with me because you believe that strongly in the...continued abuse of animals?

@sudenveri: i challenge you to demonstrate where militancy, lack of education, and rhetorical spews have come into play, without abusing the true definitions of those words. i suppose the latter have manifested in your comments where you show little understanding of the topic at hand, and have offered many illogical, rhetorical comparisons concerning SIDS and expressions of homophobia.

if by "militant" you mean unapologetic, and unwilling to pat an omnivore on the head for his or her inability to pursue an ethical diet, i guess i proudly own that, but i call that "integrity." there has never been even a hint of violence in this discussion. think about what those words really mean. i still marvel that you are more disturbed about (illogically perceived) violence of words posted on the internet, than the violence that takes place in farms and slaughterhouses.

reviewing this thread, i see that your entry into this discussion was "if God hadn't meant us to eat animals, they wouldn't be so tasty." (btw, that is fabulous; you are a real bottle of wit). that really puts things in perspective. then you attempt to undermine a vegan's position based on your assumption that s/he might be consuming processed soy products--surely just a means of distracting from the death and destruction that you personally fund.

i suppose i should be more interested in hearing how i might approach this topic from a person like yourself, who is complicit in the forced artificial insemination, perpetual pregnancy, and slaughter of animals for the sake of taste, convenience, and greed. but i am not. nor am i interested in critiques on the expression of my veganism from one who does not possess the compassion to understand the position. i am not interested in winning you over and am well aware that there are those willing to take a softer approach; just as i am aware that there are those who respond to transparency and truth. different strokes.

I think a lot of omnivores ask the question not to "pick a fight" but because they feel automatically judged (I think a lot of comments here have illustrated that). I think you could fend off a lot of problems by starting with "I don't mind that other people eat meat but I think this is a really good decision for me". If they are curious beyond that they will ask questions, if they were feeling that you were judging their decision to eat meat that will put them at ease around you. Any mention or environmental and health reasons can still make others feel judged, so if you put them at ease first it will be easier to talk honestly about those issues. Also, I don't think you should have to lie about doing it for a serious health reason if you didn't. You made the decision for whatever reason and I think you can present it honestly and not have too many arguments.

i just noticed this: http://www.examiner.com/vegan-in-national/time-to-change-minds-not-just-diets

should be good food for thought, for those still capable of thinking.

I have been veg for about 16 years because of a desire for responsible resource consumption and a general dislike of the taste of meat. Keep in mind that whatever your reasons for being vegetarian or vegan, there are other means to that end you're trying to achieve. If it's animal rights, your dining companion may be active in an animal shelter, or if it's a carbon footprint thing, your dining companion might have abandoned air travel. If you present your decision as a way for YOU to make a change in your life that impacts the world and respect the fact that other people make other types of changes in their lives, I'm sure you'll have a good response, and will likely learn something new in the discussion that follows.

@skylark254's suggestion was right on. Make it about your decision and not about what others are doing or not doing.

Why do you have to TELL people you're a vegetarian? Because I don't care what personal choices you've made regarding what you eat. DON'T CARE. So the endless "telling" becomes proselytizing. It's one of the most annoying features of the comments on the recipes, "...since I'm a vegetarian...blah, blah." Oh, and here's a question I love to ask vegetarians...pro-choice or pro-life?

WRT the nastiness going: I think we can all agree a person has the freedom to put whatever food in his mouth that he feels comfortable with, and the right to engage/disengage in discussion about it. (The fact that people on this page are engaging in conversation about the subject is cool, but it's getting a little too heated.)

It's already been said (in fact, this thread isn't even really about it anymore at this point), but Paige can simply say "I've stopped eating meat because it makes me happy." Sure, she could go into it more deeply, but it doesn't sound like she wants to. Sounds like she's looking for something polite and detached, so that she can disengage from a potentially awkward situation.

After reading all the commentary, I think I'd like to add my 2 cents. I wasa vegetarian for a long time from the end of HS through college and well into my 30's. I always ate dairy, and occassionally a bit of fish, but never meat. Then about 10 years ago I became ill and ironically I had to go back to meat for 'health reasons'.

I went veg out of a basic dislike for meat, but over the years became concerned about the way food, all food, not just meat, is raised in this country. GMOs, advanced agribusiness, fertilizers, inhumane conditions all of that, it's disgraceful!

So I embarked on becoming a responsible, environmentally aware omnivore. I buy local, raise a good bit of my own food, do home canning, eat at restaurants committed to supporting local farmer and avoid the more unsavory things like Monsanto's evil GMO Soy.

I do eat meat. I do not apologize for it and I do not put up with the arrogant self-rightous behaviors of the militant vegan types. There is NO way for us to live without causing the death of something in order to survive.

I buy a whole steer that was raised locally, naturally, and allowed to live a free animal life roaming about and eating what it wants. I buy local eggs from a neighbor who lets the birs run around outside. The hens occassionally get eaten my a hawk or coyote...does this contribute to rape or murder? When the hens reach the end of their egg laying lives, I occassionally get one to stew up into the most wonderful chicken stew you have ever tasted.

The argument that eating meat at all can ever be environmentally sound is a failed argument even to my environmentally sensitive ears. I wonder how many vegans live in big houses, drive miles and miles to work, and have huge utility bills. Consumption in excess in any form is environmentally detrimental. Live smaller, consume less in all aspects of your life, and be responsible.

Clode,

People get defensive and are very neurotic about what they eat.

Until I was really able to face the reality of the abject misery of animals being raised for food I had no problem with eating chicken, seafood and dairy.

If we think we are superior beings ENTITLED to their lives, there can be no empathy. I think we perhaps we should try have to imagine the terror and fear of animals in a slaughterhouse or a fish suffocating out of water.

We cannot preach to anyone, we have to do it for ourselves and support the others that do.

I know some very kind and compassionate people who are omnivores- I just can't eat any animals or animal products right now, it makes me sad.

Right now I hope no-one asks me to dinner.

@KerryNM Do you know any vegans? I know a whole freakin' bunch and none of us live in big houses (we have 5 people and two cats in less than 900sq ft) my husband rides his bike to work, and we buy local produce. Every vegan I know in this city (which is a large city) lives similar to this lifestyle. They avoid items made in china, they avoid gross GMO soy, they do not do any of the things that have been pointed out in this thread as "obvious" vegan behaviors and to assume as you have here, that they are living excessive lifestyles is just...? How did you form this opinion? I'm desperately curious.

This thread is also not about environmental issues, it's about having the conversation "Why DON'T you eat meat." I fail to see anything helpful in your reply other than stating all the ways that you are superior to not only vegans but to pretty much EVERYONE. Perhaps there are people who can't afford to buy their own personal humanely raised steer? What are they to do? Whatever shall they do!

I would love to know what your condition might be that makes it impossible for you to be vegetarian. Enlighten me, I've never heard of such a thing. Please don't say anemia. As a woman who had severe anemia as an omnivore and was cured by eating a rounded vegetarian diet, I am sick to death of that lie.

@Clode - "It boils down to one single thing: you are either for violence against animals or you are against it"

Enjoy living life in black in white my friend, you are missing out. Bush and yourself should throw back a few brews together, you probably have a lot in common.

"Black-and-white thinking is attractive because it’s reductionistic and it simplifies everything so we don’t really have to comprehend. It allows us to feel intelligent without understanding, and once we are intelligent, we feel superior. People who don’t agree with us are just dumb"

"it polarizes people and stunts progressive thought....it helps us defend our identities rather than search for truth"

http://www.relevantmagazine.com

@tzvenia - well said

@pharaoh - "based on what you've said in your comment, i take it you are not a cow and cannot offer first-hand experience of the process of forced cattle insemination. taking it one step further, you also cannot offer any insight on the mental anguish a mother cow experiences after her calves are taken away from her, days after birth, every single time. "

in all fairness, neither can you pharaoh

This is interesting to me. I live in the SF Bay Area, and I find that I've gotten just as much BS from vegans or vegetarians who think it is their duty to preach to me. I haven't seen much of the opposite, with omnivores giving the vegetarians a lot of crap, mainly because of where I live. I'm turned off by that self-righteous attitude no matter what the philosophy is behind it (religion, politics, etc.). In my social group there are gluten intolerant people, vegans, vegetarians, kosher, and non-drinkers. We all get along and can mostly eat at the same places because we are willing to compromise and accept each others' medical needs, ethical choices, and religions. We're all willing to talk about those choices if asked, but nobody offers unsolicited attitude.

@Clode, I would just like to very gently float the idea to you that such strident and judgmental rhetoric is why so many of us find vegans/vegetarians really difficult to listen to. As for your beliefs, perhaps if you wait until you are asked, others may be more apt to listen. Then it is a conversation. If a religious proselytizer comes to your door, do you invite them in to hear their beliefs? Probably not. You may even feel a little offended that they have not respected you enough to refrain from intruding on whatever YOUR beliefs might be. What you choose to eat is based on your personal beliefs. You cannot proclaim that you are right and others are wrong, any more than that stranger at your door who believes as passionately as you do in their cause.

@nuttmegs17. crap, you got me. i am not a cow. but as a thinking, observant human i can presume that any sentient being does not want to be made perpetually pregnant against her will. after witnessing forced separations of mother and calf, i can also surmise that the process is agonizing, what with the mother frantically baying and searching her pathetically small confines for her calf, for weeks afterward. given that this process is not only performed against the will of the animal, but is also likely to be terribly traumatic, i choose to err the side of caution and choose to have no part in the process.

do you assume that cows enjoy perpetual forced pregnancy? or that they don't mind it? why would you assume that? what is your excuse for NOT CARING, other than that you enjoy the taste of flesh and lactic secretions? that cows lack the faculty to express their misery in terms humans can understand should not give humans the right to exploit them and make them suffer--or to assume that they don't mind. how incredibly presumptuous of you.

clode is right, you are either for violence against animals, or against it. you can't claim to be opposed to violence against animals while consuming animal products achieved by violent means. but i suppose you've thought up an elegant way to dismiss the violence inherent in the meat and dairy industry, or you have a lot to learn.

@obleak1: wait, isn't _this_ a conversation? a question was asked, various answers were given, comments have been made on those answers, and the conversation has developed, all within a very specific context. if you feel intruded upon because you choose to read these comments, it's kind of your problem. no one is knocking at your door. i suppose it is your choice if you want to live your life without knowing of or caring about the effect of your choices on others, in which case please unread this comment.

well said @pharaoh! No one is knocking on anyone's door. This is a thread about a vegetarian being ASKED why she is vegetarian, for starts! LOL, I can't...

As for black and white thinking, I beg you to come up with a grey area where animal abuse is concerned. "I like to contribute to the torture and death animals SOMETIMES?" Again, LOL and LULZ.

There are plenty of issues with room for compromise but the needless and senseless abuse of animals is not one of them. It is unnecessary, period. Again, I ask, what are you fighting for? Are you arguing for the mistreatment of animals? That's fine with you? Are you against killing animals or are you for it? How about your dog? How about someone elses dog?

@pharoah, It ceases being a conversation when you exercise judgement. And there is a particular degree of anger in your rhetoric that definitely exceeds the bounds of polite and respectful discourse. And I didn't say I was intruded upon...it was an analogy. Perhaps not the best, but meant to illustrate the many instances where we come into contact with those who do not share our beliefs. I respect your right to believe as you do, but you
do not have the right judge me because I do not share your beliefs.

AClode...I'm desperately curious as to how you draw inferences from what you read. You make far too many assumptions as to the meaning behind what I, and many other,s have written here, putting your own rightously offended spin on all of it.

I wonder how you can take "I wonder..." and make it mean black and white fact. You got issues sistah. If you could just calm down and rationally state your arguments versus going postal over every "I wonder'..." then you might actually gain a willing audience.

For your edification, I am no better than anyone and never said I was. I know a freakin' bunch of vegans too, I live in Santa Fe, NM. And my health concerns are none of your damned business.

@obleak It's easy to respect someone's opinion not to eat animals, but once you've been enlightened as to the treatment of meat and dairy animals, it's very difficult to retain *respect* for anyone who is also aware of the process and continues to contribute.

Everyone judges, don't pretend you don't. You like racists, homophobes, and rapists? No, you sit right there and judge those people for their violence, just as a vegan judges an omnivore for their violence.

@obleak1: i wonder if you can show me where i have exercised judgment, because i don't feel like i've judged anyone. please don't confuse "judgment" with "statement of fact."

if you feel judged, it is likely due to cognitive dissonance. i imagine it is hard to hold an opinion of yourself as a kind and caring individual, and at the same time be aware that your choices cause about 100 animals/year to suffer and die.

yes, there is anger in my discourse. it angers me that so many people are willfully ignorant or worse, entirely dismissive of the very real suffering that is caused by their actions.

"...after witnessing forced separations of mother and calf, i can also surmise that the process is agonizing..." This kind of anthropomorphism is a bit absurd. You do know that MANY animals eat their offspring, don't you?

@ Pharoah - you know what that say when you ASSume..... :) no seriously.

I understand that you believe that. I respect that and your opinion and I would honestly wonder at you if you believed something that strongly and yet continued to do it act differntly. I apploud that you are sticking to your beliefs. I however, cannot condone someone condeming others who do not believe the same thing that you do. It's call intolerance.

I do not believe eating meat is wrong. Do I believe TORTURING animals is wrong? Yes! I believe it's sadistic. I do not believe every animal that ends up on the dinner table has been tortured however. I believe animals were put on this earth to be eaten. Plain and simple. I believe that the earth would not be able to sustain a 100% vegetarian society. I do not believe that just because you do not eat meat, you are better than or holier than thou.

I choose to eat meat b/c of medical reasons and because I enjoy it. I think animals taste delicious. I really do. Don't take that away from me

Oh @pharaoh of course it's easier to call out vegans for being so darn preachy than to intellectualize the impact your diet has on the world. Duh!

It really is the best thing to ignore abuse and destruction and focus on shooting the messenger. As a society, we rarely move past that step.

Sincerely,
Desperately seeking humanity.

I actually would make the argument that a 100% vegetarian society would be environmentally/ecological irresponsible. A "raping" of the earh as many people like to throw the word around.

Thankfully, I am glad we are all free to make our own decisions, that some choose vegetarianism, some veganis, some omnivores, etc...it balances everything out. The earth would be quite boring if we all believed and did the same thing.

obleak1: it is not ridiculous. what is ridiculous is that you assume non-human animals are incapable of feeling emotions.

so tell me. do you feel good about this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAvgM6Xbku4

and this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWM5jYORSDg

uh, of what relevance to any aspect of this conversation is it that some animals eat their offspring?

still waiting for examples of my judgmental moments, k?

I am wondering at the huge leap of thought process here....I eat meat, therefore I believe animals should be tortured? It's irrational.

I believe in the humane treatment and - YES -killing of animals. I do not think they should be abused or hurt needlessly. Violance, I define as hurting an animal for the sake of it, killing animlas I believe is necessary for many reasons....there is a difference....but I do think that they should be respected. I've seen the videos of pig farms etc, It's horrible, BUT they are not all like that. Hopefully more changes will be made so that ALL meat that appears in stores will not come from farms like that. We have to keep voting for the humane treatment/killing of animals with our dollars. It's gaining momentum. It will just take time.

@pharaoh - you are hysterical!

You are making the mistake of thinking that b/c people eat meat they believe it's ok to mistreat animals. That's not what anyone is saying. There is a difference.

No, of couse I don't feel good about those videos. But seeing that does not make me think eating animals is wrong.

@ nuttmegs17, if you don't feel that it is abusive to confine animals to far less space than they are accustomed (in some cases, not enough to turn around or spread one's wings), clip their beaks and toes, castrate them without anesthetic, brand them, steal their babies, and generally prevent them from engaging in their natural behavior, than you and i have very different definitions of the term "abuse." we also disagree on whether or not it is abusive to kill animals for food, and given this vast chasm between our understanding of the world, i can't imagine that i have any other reason to talk with you about this.

@pharaoh, I dont eat animals that are treated/raised/killed that way. I do research before buying. Again you are ASSuming that because I eat meat, I am therefore thoughtless and eat anything put before me.

I do however, believe in population control. I have my dog spaid (spelling?). However, that action is preventing "them from engaging in their natural behavior" yet I do not think that it is cruel. I believe it prevents needless killing (via animal shelters) down the line.

Life is complicated.

Life is not black and white.

@pharoah. For the record, I do agree with you that that kind of treatment of animals is wrong. It's disrespectful and cruel to treat animals that way. I do not buy for companies that treat their animals that way - I will not give them my dollars.

You are so blinded against your predjudice against meat-eaters, that you are failing to see that sometimes you have more people on your side (in regards to the abuse of animals) than you think. You push people away. You'll get more help with your movment if you wouldn't say such polarizing things.

I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing that @pharaoh doesn't consider people who senselessly kill animals for food to be "on his side." It really doesn't matter how the animal is killed when what we should strive for is letting things the heck alone. Stop breeding, stop using, stop killing, stop violence.

Do you have any idea how frustrating it is to have EVERYTHING in your environment be in direct opposition to your personal morals? When I read things that have been said here about how rude it is that a vegan dare come into a thread ABOUT vegan/vegetarianism and state their opinions I feel like freakin' out, man! Do you know that EVERYWHERE we go there is a dead animal on a billboard, a tv commercial, a plate? Don't worry, your important cause of eating animals is under no direct threat from us! JFC.

Geez Clode, get a grip! Yes, meat is a dead animal. What else could it be? But, really, the more important aspect of all of this is not only ethical treatment of animals, but ethical treatment of our planet and of mankind as well. In that broader view, everything we humans do should come under scrutiny. We over produce and over consume our resources; we're like a plague of locusts or a virus that kills its host.

As a species we must learn to live within the planetary 'budget' of sustainability. Large scale agri-business is outside of that whether we're talking about farming vegetables or raising meat proteins. You (and I mean the populous you, not the personal you) cannot claim a moral high ground if you purchase consumer goods of any type. All anyone can do is apply decency, rational thought and a desire to live in a healthy world to the choices they make.

Thoughtless unconscious consumption is the problem here not someone's dietary decisions.
To say otherwise is to pass judgement in the manner of a religious fanatic who feels they have the right to tell people how to believe, how to live and what to do with their bodies. You do not have that right no matter what you think.

If you have to resort to pictures and/or videos of animal death and torture to get your point across, then you clearly aren't ready to defend your position from a purely philosophical point of view. An intelligent, reasoned approach to expressing an opinion will garner you so much more respect, and perhaps even more converts. Fanaticism is rarely tolerated outside of its own sphere.

@obleak1, if you aren't ready to engage with reality as shown in these and thousands of other clips, than you have no business consuming animal products of any sort. it's already painfully obvious that you don't respond to reason or emotion that conflicts with your position. i have no interest whatsoever in debating you, or earning the respect of people whom i cant wholly respect in the first place.

you too have something to learn about intelligent, reasoned approaches. mostly what you've done here is be incredibly defensive and throw around words like "judgment" and "proselytize."

sigh. agree to disagree.

I don't find that people ask me all that often. When they do, I tell them the truth: my parents fed me my pet cow. That usually ends the discussion.

Dang, we got more drama than TMZ up in here.

Kerry, you make an excellent point here...

We are ALL connected, people. To everything. So if you THINK you are being perfect to the earth because you are completely vegan-locavores...think again.

Any time you flush the toilet, brush your teeth, wear clothes, walk on a paved street or sidewalk, take transportation, personal or public...EVERYTHING YOU TOUCH AND THAT TOUCHES YOU HAS IMPACTED SOMETHING OR SOMEONE SOMEWHERE. Period. So get off your high horses.

My childhood to early teens was lived in a VERY rural (they got their second traffic light two years ago...yay!!!!) town in Fl. My family (extendeds were all mostly very close by or in Wisconsin, where hunting and fishing was done more than raising of pigs and cows as in Fl) was, to put it delicately, the other end of the spectrum from well-to-do. Meat was put on the table because it was raised or hunted or netted or trapped. One of my earliest "jobs" as a kid was to carry the empty blood buckets to the butchering tree for the adults.

Now, when I told my parents I was going vegetarian a couple years ago, you can imagine that I could've announced that I was going to have a sex change operation in order to become a terrorist in some crazy religious cult so that I could blow things up all willy nilly and gotten less reaction.

Don't get me wrong, they were and are supportive...it's just that the "nature" of things is no shock to those who've lived with it - and yes, respected it.

Now, personally, I was under the impression that meat in the store had the same beginning, middle, and end as meat that was on the table when I was a kid. I.e, lots of room to roam naturally, with fresh water, treatment if necessary, and a quick, drama-less end. I cannot say that all small time farmers are like this, but I know my buppa (who was, truth be told, considered a little "strange" in his ways to most of the neighbors because he was raised on a reservation and had some "ideas" regarding land and animals that was different from most aroud us) would NEVER mistreat an animal - "pet" or livestock - out of cruelty or carelessness. We were raised and expected to be respectful and appreciative for what animals gave us.

So, yes, I was shocked, horrified, and appalled to learn of commercial productions impact on animals and environment (thank you, Skinny Bitch, for not giving a girl a headsup in the synopsis!!!)

Now, if my parents friends bring down a deer, I am all over that!!!!! And I still do seafood and dairy, and try to make the most informed decisions regarding that, as well as the eggs from my mom's chickens (who live in a "rolling" coop that is moved every day onto new grass and bundled up like feathered divas under sunlamps in winter - FYI for those that actually believe eggs are "baby birds"...chickens can lay an egg a day WITHOUT EVER BEING FERTILIZED - anyway, they are living the good life safe from predators and never lack for food, shelter, or fresh water)

But this whole, la-dee-da, there would be no pain and suffering in the world if only humans would stop wearing and eating their "friends"...? SERIOUSLY??? Have you even spent more than an hour in "the wilds" beyond your safe, cozy bed...?

Let me explain something to you about the fantasy you've created for yourself...

There are predators, and there are prey. That dog or cat or rodent or bird or whatever it is you might, as an "animal lover", have as a pet, is most likely a carnivore (if a dog or cat or fish) or omnivore (if rodent or some birds and fish) that would just LOVE to rip the innards out of something else every day. Because it is NATURAL. It is the WAY OF NATURE.

So this whole idea of "ooohhh, all the animals would all get along without us humans" is a load of horsepucky. Would there be outright torture for the sake of torturing? Probably not...but if you ever watch a bobcat teach her kittens how to catch prey TO SURVIVE...she lames them, then lets the kittens "play" for a while before they finally get the whole killing thing under control.

Ever seen a pack of canids pull down a deer or a goat or something else...? I'm pretty sure the prey is not too happy getting eaten alive and ripped apart after being chased to exhaustion.

Ever seen a pissed off cow wreck a dog because it got too close to her calf at the water trough? So the dog is basically squashed like a bug and it wasn't doing anything but trying to get water.

Let's not even get INTO what pissed off hogs can do...

Any number of examples from "sweet mother nature", my dears. She is merciless. Not cruel for crueltie's sake (which, yes, humans have the franchise on that), but certainly merciless.

So stop deluding yourself that there would be no pain and suffering in the world. And just by LIVING you have an impact. The streets you walk, the clothes you wear in the building you live in (or, at least the building that houses your online connection, in case you live naked in a tree and only use the library to sign on and spew out your own bitter toxicity), the toilets you flush (unless you are wasting in the woods), the money you spend...

Be aware of your connectedness, make the most informed decisions you can, give thanks for that which you have been provided, and respect those that give it to you - and, yes, this includes plants and animals. Share wisdom (not rhetoric, WISDOM) when you can, and know and respect that we do not all walk the same path...but we do all walk under the same sky.

Another point about animals and their "natural" behaviors...please be informed as to their "natural" behaviors. Example: most herd animals have a lead male and a lead female. The herd is usually made up of breeding females and not sexually immature young. The male will breed with the females of his herd. The males, once reaching sexual maturity, are pushed out by the lead male into "bachelor herds" WITHOUT females and thus have no right to breed. They are pushed out WITH FORCE...scarring, and sometimes deadly. Then some brave young male will try to steal females and start their own herd, but again, there is always fighting (and thus a winner and a loser) when that happens. Many wild canids do not allow any except the alpha to breed to the beta...again, all other "attempts" are stopped by force. Is that not castration...? So how is castration "not natural" when many species, when left to their own devices, do not allow all members of the herd or pack or whatever to breed...? By brutal force...?

Am I saying that it's right to cause pain when there are clearly painless alternatives to be had? Absolutely not. If I were to meet the person that shoved a pipe down the throat of my puppy mill foster dog and kept her in a cage in the dark that was filled with waste, probably I would be hard pressed not to shove a pipe down his/her throat and throw them in a basement crate for a couple of weeks if given the opportunity.

SENSELESS cruelty for the sake of cruelty's sake or profit makes my blood boil like almost nothing else.

BUT, don't act like animals in their "natural" wild have it sooooooooooo freakin' cushy all the time either. I defy you to show me the feral cat, stray dog, or wild horse that DOESN'T have their fair share of battle scars. Survival can be brutal and horrifying - WITH cause - to survive and maintain balance.

I can't be bothered to read the gazillions of posts here.. read a few at the beginning, and CarmenJF's response basically gives me an idea where the ones in between wandered (hang a left at PETA and straight on til HSUS), but as a veterinarian with degrees in zoology and animal behavior, and four years of research in an animal welfare science lab, I have to hand it to CarmenJF. You've pretty much got it nailed. Animals are not exactly NICE to each other, and in the wild they aren't necessarily all that healthy either. It's stressful out there. But it is what it is.

I was mostly vegetarian for 12 years when I learned about the conditions on industrial farms, but would still happily eat a deer or duck my step-dad had hunted (free life and a quick kill) and sustainably raised seafood.

Some of our research in the lab showed that you make more of an economic impact supporting the small growers who are trying to do the right thing than you do by removing your purchasing power from the system entirely. You are too small of a contributer to the ag-business to matter. But you DO make a difference to the small producer trying to humanely raise small herds on natural pasture. So now I eat meat when I can support those who are doing it well.

And as an aside about photos and videos you may see: yes, there are some horrible things going on on industrial farms. BUT it is extremely easy to take even an extremely humane situation and film or photograph it to look horrible. I've seen it happen. Get in there and VISIT some farms, get your shoes dirty and see what really goes on before you believe everything you see on the internet.

And don't forget that groups like PETA and HSUS supply funding for eco-terrorist groups like ELF and ALF, who use arson and bombings. I sat in on the US Senate hearing, I saw the IRS records. Now how humane is that?

Nothing is black and white. Nothing is all benign or all evil, and no matter how hard you try, you are never going to be able to separate yourself from using animal products (do you have tires on your car? take pills? yeah, thought so), so instead of denouncing the entire world around you, consider stepping up and supporting those who are trying to do things right.

@CarmenJF and @Hillary

Amen.

I've been mostly vegetarian for a long time (over 16 years) with a little meat eating (maybe one or two times a year, a dish or two). It's never been an ethical thing for me. It was just because I liked it. So I just say "Hey, I really like veggies and I like tofu." That seems to work fine.

those who pat themselves on the back for eating free-range or other "humane" meat need to realize that in many cases, the animals are slaughtered at the same slaughterhouses as factory farmed animals. different life, same gruesome end. so yes, all of the "ethical omnivores" in this thread should visit the farms and interact with the animals they intend to eat; they should also find out where and how the animals are killed, and maybe witness that first hand. if you care about any of this, try searching on line for things like: free range slaughter.

carmenjf, no one in this thread asserted that animals would do fine and live peaceably on their own. i don't think most vegans live under such an illusion. if anything, the idea that underscores vegan philosophy is that animals simply should not be bred for the purposes of people. that animals can be brutal to each other in nature does not give us leave to be brutal with them. so, while you provide lot of accurate information, i'm not sure why you've gone to the trouble.

hillary, i really wish it was true that PETA directly gave funds to the ALF/ELF--they would rise a bit in my estimation--but the truth is they merely contributed to the defense funds of accused activists. how can an organization give funds to a completely clandestine organization? and how could monetary gifts to such an organization be reflected in IRS records? it is not as if the ALF has a bank account. by the by, the ALF, despite endless accusations of violence, have never harmed an individual, unlike their targets who generally have copious amounts of blood on their hands.

I think sometimes the problem with vegetarians is that they can make you feel bad. Like sometimes when you go out for dinner with one, you can almost hear them thinking "I can't believe you're eating that meat. You're disgusting."

The problem is, "reformed meat eaters" are like "reformed smokers". They try to convince you that you are wrong in your own lifestyle choice.

I would never dream of telling someone else how to eat and I don't appreciate it when someone else tries to tell me how to eat. The problem is, most vegetarians do, even subconciously.

Just "I don't eat meat" is sufficient. You don't need to go into it. And for God's sake, don't say "because I don't like the thought of eating animals" while you're wearing a pair of leather boots... or showing off your latest designer handbag.

My apologies pharaoh, I believe it was your comments here:

"...clip their beaks and toes, castrate them without anesthetic, brand them, steal their babies, and generally prevent them from engaging in their natural behavior, than you and i have very different definitions of the term "abuse." we also disagree on whether or not it is abusive to kill animals for food, and given this vast chasm between our understanding of the world, i can't imagine that i have any other reason to talk with you about this," that made me attempt to share wisdom with you.

Because all these behaviors you list by your own hand (unless your keyboard is being held hostage...?) are NATURAL behaviors that animals visit upon their own species and others.

If you are going to argue a philosophy so zealously, I thought it only fair that you have correct information with which to do so in order that whatever arguments you come up with are not able to be knocked down.

My apologies for wasting your time.

No matter, perhaps some others may find it of value!

And, perhaps not "brand" with hot iron...but certainly mark or scar; and having gotten more than a few animal-induced injuries and scars in my time, I can assure they are not without some pain and suffering.

But, again, my apologies for wasting your time.

carmenjf, SYSTEMATIC beak clippings, castrations, impregnation and removal of babies for the sake of stealing lactic secretions, branding (or otherwise marking, or scarring) for purposes of asserting ownership, etc. etc. etc. DO NOT happen in the wild to millions of animals every year. yes, animals do hurt each other, but you cannot cite these instances as justification for the sickness that has become the norm. it amazes me that you can say, "well, animals hurt each other in the wild, therefore i am free to cause suffering to animals, too." actually, it does not amaze me, since about 99% of the first world's population seem to have a real appetite for death, but a strong aversion to facts and sense, not to mention, empathy.

And be kind/considerate to OTHER's food choices & sensitiviies!

Recently I have been baffled by one of my co-worker's responses to my needs for eating gluten free. She has been Vegetarian for more than 20 years (currently eats fish, & eggs from her own or humanely treated chickens), & her husband has been diagnosed as Celiac for about as long.

A couple of weeks ago, she scheduled a breakfast meeting for 4 gals (two of us eating GF for health reasons), & chose a bakery/deli that does NOT offer GF choices - the servers had that 'Deer in the headlights look' when they offered us a 'sample' from the bakery before we left, & I politely asked '& are any of these Gluten Free??

Her 'selling point' on why we should have the meeting there was they offer ANY of their bakery items FREE on your BD (but didn't know if they had any GF items) .... & before we left, she told the other GF gal that their 'day old' prices are great!

For more than 20 years, I've supported her choice to be vegetarian, & her husband's need to be GF, tho I knew much less about celiac & the dangers of Gluten when I first met them), so I am confused by her response.

I'm guessing that it's because our family 'simply' had the genetic testing done, & know we have the genes for gluten sensitivity, rather than being 'fully celiac' like her husband - though my grown daughter has Dermititis Herpidiformis, a Celiac symptom, & we have many other gluten related symptoms that abated after we went GF.

So please, please be aware of other's needs as well - & be sure you don't offer any of your GF friends seitan or other hight gluten products!!

Q: Why don't you eat meat?

A: "I eat what I want." OR "Eat what you want. I do. (It's America.)"

Q: Why don't you want to eat meat?

A: Why don't you want to drink a fifth of gin?

I eat what makes me feel best. I feel great on what I eat or I'd eat something else.

Q: Where do you get your protein?

A: What's protein? (I think I'm getting some from your breath.)

After they explain what protein is: A: There are lists of plants and their levels of protein out there; you can find them -- I get what I need and I feel great. Are you religious? Read the Book of Daniel.

Look, I'm not a preachy, condescending type of non-meat eating person. Eat what you want. I do.

AND IF PUSHED: Hey, I have no problem with it. I'll cook you a steak or some barbeque. Come on, let's go kill somethin'. You got a dog or a cat, come on -- you whack it on the head or whatever and I'll help you go grind it up, or I'll hold it down while you suck its teats. Just don't pretend you don't do that by paying someone else to do it for you and package it up, because that's exactly what you do when you pull it off the shelf and put your money down, be it cows or ducks or pigs or monkeys or wherever it is that you choose to draw the line, so get off my back and go get yourself something to eat -- whatever you might enjoy.