apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

I'm trying to avoid it as much as possible along with buying local and organic. I'm starting my own container this year and plan on growing only heirloom varities. If I ever have a house and a yard I'd like to grow heirloom trees and maybe some heirloom chickens.

I think it's important to keep these species alive.

N.

http://badhuman.wordpress.com

there was a brilliant tv documentary about gm food last week on a french/german channel here, likely in anticipation of the decision in France.

People should really be made aware of the work of Árpád Pusztai...

i.e., (quoting wikipedia here, but it is consistent with what he stated in the tv interview I saw)

"...considered by many to be the leading expert on GM foods, was silenced with threats of a lawsuit after he unexpectedly discovered that rats fed an experimental GM food developed immune system damage and other serious health problems in just ten days. Pusztai later reviewed an industry-sponsored study and found that seven of forty rats fed a GM crop died within two weeks; others developed stomach lesions. The crop was approved without further tests."

Also interviewed and discussed in that French program was the the Canadian scientist, Shiv Chopra, who along with two colleagues, is the reason that bovine growth hormone was banned in Canada http://www.consumerhealth.org/articles/display.cfm?ID=19991128221446

this brief article from a medical journal links the bovine growth hormones to rates of hormone-dependent cancers in humans

http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/161/6/677?eaf

...needless to say, I don't support Monsanto...

Sounds like a good fight to me.

There's enough food in the world to feed people, Gmo or non Gmo doesn't mean we'll have systems in place to pay for the food and get it to the people who need it.

When I think of GMO I think of American coming up with its own strain of Jasmine rice, a crop that happens to be the only significant cash crop for certain small Asian countries.

When I think of GMO I think of KFC.

When I think of GMO I think of corn that has sex with itself and has its own internal pesticide.

When I think of GMO I think of white bread.

That's what I think of genetically modified food.

Some GMO grains provide greater amounts of protein, or are less vulnerable to diseases or insects. Not a bad thing in countries where people are starving. You can't always generalize about some things. Research is the key obviously.

And companies that do this kind of research are pioneers in insuring that original, heirloom plants are preserved. There are vast amounts of Turkey red in storage.

If the whole world demanded "organic" food, then a lot more people would be starving.

Why f*ck with what nature so beautifully made on its own...

damn, I can't get corn having sex with itself out of my head, thanks art.

Does it seem odd to anyone else that France is required to present evidence that GMO foods are harmful to people rather than the companies being forced to show that they aren't harmful to people?

I realize this is probably the way this type of thing usually works, but it seems like the burden of proof is being laid on the wrong party.

We've been f*cking with nature for centuries, we just had to move slower before. We've bred turkeys so fat that they can't breed without help, cats with faces so flat they can't breath properly, dogs who have neurological disorders and corn and bananas that are NOTHING like the sort Nature came up with.

Our climate is going to get more extreme in the next century and normal breeding and evolution won't be enough to help our food crops survive that. GMOs could. Drought tolerant crops for starving countries, plants that aren't suseptible to pests, hypoallergenic cats (not that this actually works the way they say it does, but it's a nice thought)...

Ethics are vital in this kind of research, obviously, but I can easily see a time when we have a choice between GMOs and starvation with global warming going the way it is.

I hear what you are saying Fontessa.

We can't turn our backs on technology.

It's just that, as a race, we don't seem to be able to control ourselves.

Nuclear energy could be used for great things,

it could also be used to vaporize us and create monsters out of those that survive.

I applaud France for letting others play with this one.

While I feel bad that I cannot speak French and in turn get laughed at when I'm there, I appreciate the pride that so many French people have for their rich culinary traditions. Each region has their own specialty, whether it be something as simple as a baguette or a particular kind of wine that they and their family and the generations before them have grown up with. These things are pure and simple and good. And according to them, they are the best in the world. And I agree with them. Why? Because in their hearts and their social fabric they are the best.

So if producing these things with GMOs will ruin that for them, then by golly, let someone else make 'em.

Viva la France! That's the only French I know besides food words. Oh, yeah, and bonjour and bonsoi!

And I can see now, the complications that can arise from such a Union.

Good for the French!

I am TOTALLY anti-GMFood! It's unnatural, and there is not enough evidence to prove it is good for people with no ill side effects. Give me natural, sustainable food any day.

As to GM Foods "staving off world hunger", I find that ridiculous! Studies have shown that sustainable farming can produce a higher yield, and I know from a personal source that it is more cost-effective, while making it possible to use the land every year to grow crops.

Also, some GM seeds are modified such that new seeds must be repurchased each year because seeds cannot be kept over to grow a crop the next year. If the world becomes more dependent on these GM crops, and something happens to the source that provides those seeds, world hunger will definitely become a problem!

Doesn't all corn have sex with itself? I thought that's what those wispy things up top were about.

If the secret to solving world hunger is 6 billion people being dependent on Monsanto to sell us non reproducing seed every season then we're all doomed.

There are already well documented findings that GMOs are dangerous to the environment. Why people feel that the only reason to stop something is if it directly makes us sick, I don't know.

"When I think of GMO I think of KFC"

Why?

It should be noted that all food is genetically modified. Or did you think the produce we have today is what was available 1,000 years ago or more? Selective breeding has given us our modern cornucopia.

Bruce, selective breeding is not equivalent to genetic modification, which means human alteration of DNA at a molecular level.

The main arguments to forbid GM corn/maize were that it couldn't be stopped from spreading and that it seemed harmful to lots of insects and assorted critters other than the one it was designed against (corn borer).

We--as Americans--have been using genetically modified food for years and to I can't say that world hunger has been solved because of it. That argument is so hypocritical. These companies are pushing forward with genetically modified foods because they can patent and therefore license their seeds for example. It’s creating a monopoly of sorts. Then farmers have to pay license fees to use their seeds. Even unwilling organic farmers end up sued by these companies because cross-pollination happens to disperse these genetically modified seeds into their fields. Monsanto has successfully sued many organic farmers after their seeds were discovered unlicensed in their fields. It’s a farce and the health implications are still widely unknown. But it’s also a lost fight since these genetically modified seeds are already widely being scattered around the country by the wind. There’s no such thing as purely organic food sources. Cross-contamination has already happened and will only increase in the future.

above was my health argument against GM food, here are some of the economic, political and legal aspects of it:

bruce,

we no longer have a "cornucopia" -- many, many varieties of seeds and domestic animals are being lost every day, and with them, the genetic diversity that will help us survive changing conditions in the future.

Fontessa:

as leonad alluded to, the fact that Monsanto is making many of the seeds sterile, and will be demanding royalties for ALL seeds, whether a farmer comes by them accidentally or not is actually setting the stage for MORE, not less, starvation and poverty: small farmers, who have saved their seeds for generations will no longer be able to do so, and will have to pay Monsanto a royalty fee, whether they knowingly have Monsanto seed or not.

You think it can't happen? It is already happening; it started back in 1997.

http://www.greens.org/s-r/26/26-08.html

A small farmer from Saskatchewan, Percy Schmeiser, saved his seeds for over 55 years, developing a locally adapted variety of canola. As a farmer, he considered it his life's work. In 1997, he found his fields contaminated with a Monsanto genetically engineered seed. Not only did Monsanto not pay him repartions, Monsanto sued him for royalties for their seeds -- he was going to be the case they would use to threatened and intimidate all other farmers with. Mr. Schmeiser fought back against the harassment and limitless legal actions of Monsanto - here are his own words:

http://www.percyschmeiser.com/conflict.htm

http://www.percyschmeiser.com/profile.htm

How far does Monsanto go? In February 2005 at the World Intellectual Property Organisation (WIPO) in Geneva, Monsanto sibmitted patents not only on methods of breeding, but on actual breeding herds of pigs as well as the offspring that result.

"If these patents are granted, Monsanto can legally prevent breeders and farmers from breeding pigs whose characteristics are described in the patent claims, or force them to pay royalties," says Then. "It's a first step toward the same kind of corporate control of an animal line that Monsanto is aggressively pursuing with various grain and vegetable lines."

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/news/monsanto-pig-patent-111

I don't know about you, but the idea of any single entity monopolizing the Earth's food supply is terrifying.

This issue is as important, if not more so, than climate change.

oh yeah.

bees.

you know how there is a crisis in hives, how the bees are disappearing, and are not around to pollinate plants and trees (thus threatening our food supply)?

well, european scientists link it to gm plants: they destroy the bees' immune systems, and then they fall prey to disease, and die off.

Did anyone listen to NPR this morning?

It's very ironic to me, that we are hearing these stories about how the young people are going back to farming the land on small acreage. They are raising crops that are expensive to grow and demand a premium. They are using the local population for skilled labor...

I find myself staying to listen to the story. But I know what they are going to say. They are not teaching me anything new. This all makes sense to me.

What's interesting to me is that to some people, we are regressing. But to others, it's an awakening. It's like the Matrix. We've been programmed to think that this is the way it is. I just hope enough of the masses wake up and learn that we don't need to regress but learn that the way we used to do things is o.k. Our past generations knew a thing or two. I learned in school not to forget history mostly because we would be doomed to repeat it. But we're not supposed to forget the things that made sense! Like eating vegetables from good dirt. Like eating animals that ate grass and acorns and vegetable scraps. Our country has the God given gift of mineral rich soil thanks to the glaciers that cut across it. Could we ask for more when it comes to growing food that comes naturally chock full of vitamins we try to get through a bottled beverage or pill?

KidMoe, selective or cross breeding also alters the DNA, just indirectly.

Mmm. This blurb is not quite accurate.

France, and most EU countries banned GMOs in their country since the 90's... Irish citizens actually took to the grassroots with pitchforks and hoes and "rooted out" some GM beet plantings in their country. Also, other countries (Uganda) have even gone so far as to refuse food aid from the US during food shortages due to GM corn

Recently, England OKed some products; but France remains staunchly against it.

What happened a few years ago, is that the EU set their standard as "proof of safety" due to their traditional laws and required that manufacturers who wished to sell GM foods had the burden to prove that the foods were safe.

But then, the US brought suit against the EU in the world court of the Hague for WTO violations. And the WTO clarified the issue of proof, struck down the trade injunction and required that the EU prove that it was dangerous (thereby flipping the standard of proof over and putting the burden on the EU).

So that's why we are where we are with this news blurb. It's not new news, just a continuation in the saga...

fugitiverouge

...this story is accurate, as it is about the 2007 EU decision to lift a ban on GM crops, so a number will be planted this spring... the French are refusing to go along with the EU decision...


You are confusing it with a 2006 WTO trade ruling arising out of a 2003 WTO complaint handled at the WTO in Geneva (not at the International Court in the Hague) ...

Fortunately, violating a WTO ruling only results in hefty fines; since the U.S. routinely ignores WTO rulings not in its favour, maybe the EU will do likewise.

Interestingly, the roots of the WTO issue lay in the Bush I administration:

"...in 1992... then-President George H.W. Bush, the father of the current President, issued an Executive Order proclaiming GMO plants such as soybeans or GMO corn to be ‘substantially equivalent’ to ordinary corn or soybeans, and, therefore, not needing any special health safety study or testing.

As basis for its 2003 WTO filing against the EU, Washington, on behalf of agribusiness interests including Monsanto, Dow, DuPont and others, charged the EU with violation of the American ‘substantial equivalence’ doctrine!"

And the WTO responded by turning standard of proof on its head...

neat, huh?

Furtiverouge
“Recently, England OKed some products “? Which would these be?

I would be interested to know this/your source? So far as I know, we are told there are none
http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/gm/crops/faq.htm

There is much debate but serious opposition to GM.

It bothers me to no end that they are required to prove that they are bad before the ban can be enforced. I would much rather have the big companies prove that GMO's aren't bad.

@kidmoe - I'm not clear - do you think GM foods are changing us at a molecular level? Anyway, selective breeding is used by growers to select certain traits they want to enhance or diminish. That's genetics in action. It's the exact same idea as GM crops. GM just makes it easier to combine specific traits from various species. Introducing carrots' beta carotene producing abilities into rice, for instance, creating the so-called "golden rice".

@monika - what I meant by cornucopia is this: thanks to selective breeding, we have a bewildering array of variations on themes. The brassicas descended from a single planet. Selective breeding gave us dozens of varieties. And the mere existence of GM foods does not negate the existence of non-GM varieties. I myself have dozens of seed packets containing lots of heirloom varieties of tomatoes. I applaud the efforts of those folks who are working to preserve the heirloom plants, btw. There is no reason to settle for the generic produce at the grocery just because it's there.

Also, re: the bees. Many reasons have been offered for CCD, and GM crops are one. According to Wikipedia, "[a]s of late 2007, there is still no consensus of opinion, and no definitive causes have emerged".

I believe contamination risks and corruption of organic produce/conditions are pretty much top of the list of objections to growing GM crops in GB.

art should think of almost all the soy based products on the market, as well. ADM, Archer Daniels Midland is the largest producer of GMO soy. As Lesley says,the trouble with GMO plants is that they cross-pollinate with non-GMO strains & corrupt them. "Vive la France", I say, for having the balls to stand up to agri-business and its total disregard for our health & the future of plantlife.