apartment therapy changing the world, one room at a time

I find myself doing more comparision shopping for the necessities sometimes making a trip to three different grocery stores in one day.

The price of milk has risen significantly and I find that the Albertson's down the street simply cannot beat the price of milk at Trader Joe's. But Henry's has the best prices on fruits and veggies. It may backfire on my in the end with using more gas for these trips but I do find I am a more conscious consumer with an eagle eye towards bargains.

Food is my luxury item--like buying King Arthur's flour over the store brand or good chocolate instead of the cheap stuff. Still, buying quality food and making my own meals is cheaper than eating out. I don't have the room to buy in bulk, but I cook in bulk and eat off leftovers throughout the week, or freeze quantities for later brown bag lunches.

The New York Times blog is an issue I've always felt strongly about. You can even see the "more bang for the buck" theory if you shop at low-income grocery stores. Not only is it cheap, but it's easy and quick to prepare, or at least it seems that way. I've done a lot of work in soup kitchens where serving a balanced meal would be difficult. A lot of the food donated to us would be pasta and rice. Produce would often be on its last legs. =\

It is definitely a sad time in our country when people have to choose between food and health care. That makes me sick to my stomach.

I'm with you Darlene. Since we have so many choices I think it's wise not to put all of your eggs in one basket. Grocery stores are big business and like all others, they have strategies for making the most money possible. It's not that easy either, as they have one of the smallest profit margins in the sales industry.

I'm often nosy in the grocery store aisle by looking at what people buy. For instance, I saw a woman at Whole Foods with a couple of children buy handfuls of several different kinds of Kashi, Clif and other types of bars. I didn't see how they cost but they just about took up the whole conveyor belt. I couldn't help but think how it would be a better value to purchase an entire box of bars at a discounted price rather than all those retail pieces.

I guess my point is, if you are willing to do all of your shopping at one place, expect to pay more because while you may save on certain items, other items have been marked up to compensate for it. Grocery stores have been notorious for price gouging. I like modern design, if I did all of my shopping at DWR though, I'd be in serious trouble.

"Eating out is the new eating in."

That is so true and I have had this thought for years. I spend 6 days a week cooking for many of the same people several times during the week. I am an extension of their dining rooms and kitchens. While I'm appreciative of their patronage (it keeps me employed) and I consider many of them friends, I wonder several things. 1. Does it cost these people less to eat out than it would to eat at home? 2. Are they making good and healthy choices? I provide them with a broad menu with many choices, all of which is wholesome but not all "healthy" so to speak. e.g. big steak or fresh fish? hamburger or fresh salad? 3. What do they do with their big expensive kitchens? 4. Has learning the craft of cooking completely disappeared from American families? 5. Are "regulars" concerned about eating organic, sustainable and local and is it becoming a priority?

Yes, I am paying way more for groceries. Hardly ever eat out anymore (used to do so at least once a week, out of single-mom-cooking-fatigue) cuz I can't afford it. Groceries are by far my largest expense - after mortgage and child care of course. I'm really really stressed out about it. It's sick, but sometimes fresh produce does feel like a luxury. And organic? Forget it. Thank god for Safeway's house organic brand, which is probably a pretty paltry excuse for organic, but at least I can sometimes afford it. Between the stress of shopping and cooking, I am starting to lose all enjoyment for eating.

I can't cut back on my groceries. These days I feel lucky when I escape from the grocery store spending less than $200. There's only 3 of us and still, like mjoe, food is my largest expense after the mortgage. We do still eat produce, which often times is more expensive than meat. Nothing organic anymore; it's too expensive for everyday. With gas going up, I expect things to get only worse.

I haven't noticed my grocery bills going up, but I have come to believe that buying expensive groceries is always cheaper than eating out. That being said, I have no car and can't shop around too widely.

To try to tackle some of art's questions:
1. Sometimes it is cheaper for people to eat out, especially if they pawn it off as a business expense or can use the time saved by not cooking to rack up more billable hours (I have many lawyer friends).
3. They have parties catered into their expensive kitchens and admire the pristine stainless steel finishes.
4. The craft of cooking has gone the way of the crafts of knitting and sewing -- pursued by enthusiasts and professionals, viewed by others as quaint and old-fashioned.

fresh fruits and vegetables are actually not expensive, and you can do $3/day (federal food stamp allotments) with good organic produce. If you do a comparison, price per ounce, the fresh fruits and veggies (even modifying for waste) will be cheaper than frozen and canned; unless you are buying exotics like asparagus, berries, or peaches in the winter. And, the higher calorie foods are not inexpensive.

I find that the more packaged or instant food I buy, the higher my grocery bill is; whereas, when I stick to produce and no packaged foods, it is significantly cheaper (up to 40%, depending on what is or is not purchased).

And yes, restaurant food is always more expensive than a home-cooked meal; that is why I allow the indulgences of organic grass fed free range filet... it actually ends up being less than a super size fast food meal (which, I am shocked to find costs nearly $8 nowadays).

Not to mention factoring in such things as hidden costs (1) subsidies (our taxes pay for corn subsidies which are heavily used as filler ingredients in prepared foods); (2) health costs (investment now in good simple foods will cut down on health care costs in the future resulting from bad diets; ounce of prevention); (3) environmental costs... etc etc. I could go on and on, but have to get back to work now.

"The craft of cooking has gone the way of the crafts of knitting and sewing -- pursued by enthusiasts and professionals, viewed by others as quaint and old-fashioned."

Whoa. Seriously? That sentence applies to a whole different tax bracket than most of the world. Most of the world still cooks not as a hobby or art, but in order to eat. I know a lot of people who don't like to cook, but I really don't know anyone who views it as quaint and old-fashioned, that would be like... what, driving your own car, cleaning your own toilet, and doing your own laundry are quaint and old-fashioned?

Also you lost #2.

oh, but despite the pure economic reasons and benefits of fresh foods; the reality is that people don't have "time to cook" (which is another illusory strange thing to me, as an avid cook, because I find mac and cheese takes just as long to cook as braised tat soi with a side of pasta melted with comte & spinach)...

or, the inclination, when you could simply toss box ingredients in at prescribed times, instead of thinking and planning a meal strategy

So I think this is really the biggest barrier: the perceived prejudice that cooking from scratch is difficult and time consuming and nobody nowadays has "time" for such things (but does have time to watch an average of 4 hours television per day...)

I love to cook, I don't watch TV, and I frequently don't have time to cook. I hate mac and cheese, but we eat it all the time because yeah, it actually does take a lot less time. There are only 3 dishes to wash: the pot, the spoon, the strainer. No washing or chopping of vegetables. (No vegetables I had to remember to buy; the mac and cheese is always there in the pantry, which is the main reason we end up eating it.) There are a few minutes while it's just sitting there boiling when I can do one of the 12 other things I need to be doing while I'm making dinner. And planning meals takes time.

I'm not happy about eating mac and cheese or a lot of the other crap that goes on in my kitchen, but it's not because I'm prejudiced against cooking or too stupid to figure it out.

I think cooking and nutrition should be added to school curricula.

The food which is made in the classroom could then be served and sold in the cafeteria. This is a similar strategy that culinary schools use. Lower level classes produce the diced vegetables and stocks which are used for the higher level classes to produce sauces and finished dishes. The finished dishes or trimmed and portioned proteins are then assembled by another group of students in the cafeteria to be served to the student body. Nothing is wasted, everybody is learning and everybody should be motivated to do a good job because every depends on one another for their sustenance.

It's not too late. Cooking will save the world!!!!

Seriously though, if we're not learning it at home...

I know, we don't even want to fund art classes anymore.

I sort of strayed from my point which was,

Cooking at home doesn't have to be expensive,

doesn't have to be overly time consuming,

doesn't have to be complicated.

But that's only if one has the skill and confidence to cook. With that skill and confidence you can,

shop strategically,

budget time for meals,

cook as simple or complex as you wish.

In addition, time spent cooking could turn into time spent cooking with children who may be old enough to do simple things (Like sit on the countertop next to the stove to stir scrambled eggs--sorry, maybe I wish I had a kid I could do that with) turning that time into education and social interaction hour.

Just in time!

Some industry research:

http://www.rimag.com/archives/2008/01/diner.asp?nid=3460

http://www.rimag.com/archives/2008/01/food-menu08.asp?nid=3460

(this one has a poll with graph depicting consumer opinion related to rising gasoline prices)
http://www.rimag.com/archives/2008/01/countdown.asp?nid=3460

A tip for those who live in NYC -- There's a lively produce/fruit market underneath the Manhattan Bridge. I can't say that the items there are locally produced, but for fresh fruits and vegetables the prices can't be beat.

I have arranged my work schedule so that I get home when my son gets home from school. Between then and dinner time we spend our time doing homework, talking and preparing the evening meal. My son is 10 and he just loves chopping vegetables and stirring things for me. I'm hoping that my influence and teaching will pay off for him in the long run.

My husband didn't know how to boil water. His mother never let the kids in the kitchen, they just got in the way.

I've never had a grocery budget, and if I did I don't know that I would necessarily cut it. However, I have become increasingly conscious about how much food is going bad and being thrown away in my home. I never go shopping anymore without a list for at least three meals, and I am cutting back on the size of the meals so I don't end up with so many leftovers. I like leftovers for lunch, but I prefer not to eat the same thing 5 days in a row, which is what I had been doing.

fugitiverogue, I'd like to know where you're shopping. Frozen veggies are far, far cheaper per pound for me than fresh. $3 on organic produce? That's 2 small organic apples at my local grocery store, and I live in a city with a remarkably low cost of living.

I hardly ever eat out at all, since I'm barely above the poverty level. But I've definitely been doing more comparison shopping, coupon usage, and "stretching", because food prices are getting completely out of hand.

I am definitely cutting back on my grocery budget, but I don't think that is a bad thing. For one, it cuts down on waste. I use those borderline not so fresh veggies in a creative way instead of composting them. I find uses for what I have in my pantry instead of buying another, different can of beans or what have you. And by conserving I can still purchase high quality food, I just buy less. Good for the waistline and the pocketbook, and we all know that buying less stuff is better for the environment too.

I agree with j.Cipa!
Fugitiverouge where are you shopping!! What part of the country do you live in? Where I am is considered some of the cheapest groceries in the country. The $3 you mention will barely buy non organic fruit and veggies here. Frozen is cheaper by far. I was at Whole Foods last week and the woman in front of me bought 3 paperbags of mainly produce and other groceries. She also bought 4 bottles of wine. Her bill was $380!!
Don't get me started on milk prices. How the working poor can afford milk for their families is beyond me.

mjoe,
Of course, you are correct about cooking being something most people have to do in order to eat. I'm not looking beyond my circle, which is largely composed of upwardly-mobile young professionals with incomes far exceeding my own. They see my regular cooking routine as a waste of my "valuable" time ("you actually make your own chicken stock?"). I can't even consider holding a potluck, because maybe two people would actually cook something themselves.

what, driving your own car, cleaning your own toilet, and doing your own laundry are quaint and old-fashioned?
Funny you should say that, some of these friends use a house-cleaning service and drop of their laundry at the laundromat....

To chime in on the Michelle/mjoe conversation, when I was a lawyer in a firm in SF, I rarely if ever cooked even though it's something I love to do. And it wasn't because I saw cooking as a waste of my valuable time. Frankly, the firm probably did, and preferred me at my desk billing. The demands of my job prevented me from engaging in many things that I love to do because in my limited spare time, I had just about enough physical and mental energy left to sit and stare at the wall. To come home and cook - no way. I ate out A LOT. I ate stuff from cans and boxes A LOT. It was unbearable for me, and for many of my friends who have also moved on to more reasonable work environments. I believe today's society has become way too focused on the work sphere to the detriment of the home sphere, but there are many "upwardly mobile young professionals" who are rebelling against the notion that one must give themselves over heart and soul to their careers. They want balance. They want to be able to come home in the evening and cook a meal. They take pride in keeping their own homes. They do not want to be constantly hooked into their Blackberries or Treos. I hope that this "eating out is the new eating in" mentality will start to turn as more people demand balance in their lives.

Having said that, I know that there a lot of people who work just as many hours because it is the only way that can stay afloat (I was one of them in the pre-law days). To be faced with a double whammy - no time to cook, and less money to spend on nutritious food - is sickening. Now that I am making due with a fraction of my prior income, I have become more conscious about my grocery shopping habits. But we tend to just eat out less, and buy less stuff so that we don't have to cut too much of our grocery budget. Yes, it hurts to spend significantly more on organic foods at the co-op than the cheaper alternatives at Walmart, but it's a choice we can still afford to make. And for that I am thankful.

I was lucky growing up--my parents landscaped the front and backyards of our suburban house into a miniature farm so all the produce was at hand. It can be difficult to go shopping as often as you need to during the week to keep fresh produce around constantly. Others in my blue collar neighborhood went for the quick, cheap, and comforting, especially since so many of them came from families where at both parents work, and at least one of them worked more than one job just to support the household, forget all the other things that go along with operating a household and being a parent.

As for the art of cooking becoming quaint, it reminds me of the time Jane Brocket of the yarnstorm blog was interviewed on a British talk radio station; one of the other guests offered the same assessment as a response to Brocket's book about "domestic arts," which included cooking. As I remember it, she said such "pinny porn" was nice, but she had no patience for it as a busy professional woman who was fighting the image of the stereotypical houeswife.

I disagree with the person who stated that fresh fruit and vegetables are not expensive. That is not true here in Boston. Since I moved here about 5 years ago, I've seen prices skyrocket. It's very disappointing when trying to eat healthy. Unfortunately, it's cheaper to eat unhealthy foods, then fresh healthy foods. We've definitely cut back in many areas thanks to rising grocery prices. We now bounce between a few different grocery stores to get the best prices.

I'm with pidgeon92 -- not necessarily cutting back my budget, but trying to use it more wisely and only buying things I know I'll use before they go bad.
Also, this is the time of the year when I get really antsy to see farmers markets again.

SMM,

I politely disagree you with you when you say it is cheaper to eat unhealthy foods.

This is not always the case. Many processed and pre-packaged foods are pricey and are designed for single servings. There is no value here. Open the box, heat, eat, throw the box in the garbage and open another unit when it is time to eat again.

Many countries that are "poorer" than America eat much better than Americans and eat only fresh healthy food. Stews, pasta, soups, grains, beans, greens, bread even pizza--these are all "peasant" dishes and ingredients.

Citrus, which is an important source of vitamins is often times local produce for many people, rich or poor, but in America it can be expensive. This is a perfect example of how it is important not to buy everything in one place. More often than not, grocery stores will sell lemons and limes for 50 cents to $1 apiece. Ethnic groceries will more often than not sell a dozen lemons or limes for around a dollar. They will also sell fresh produce, even exotic produce, at wholesale prices. Why? Because these ingredients are integral to the cultures of those who have immigrated to the United States. Every little town may not have a Vietnamese market but pretty much every little town has a Mexican market. Check it out, there are bargains to be had!

Art, I do not eat processed and pre-packaged foods, but rather the 'peasant' diet that you mentioned. It's not the price of grains and beans which concern me, but the price of fresh fruit and vegetables. That's great if fresh produce is cheap where you live, but here in Boston it's ridiculously expensive.

I am very concerned about everything I feed my two small children. I dread going to the grocery store because I will end up reading every list of ingredients and comparing products endlessly. I buy organic as much as I can, but some things are just out of our price pint. Such as free range chicken, though we do buy free range eggs. The things we consistently splurge on are organic things for our children, good bread, and organic milk products.I know many of these things are out of reach of many Americans. My sister and her husband and my parents are just two examples. Both of these families are on food stamps and there is just no way they can buy fruit without pesticide most of the time.
To the people who have said it is cheaper to eat healthfully, I partially agree. It is just as cheap to make homemade soup in a bug batch as to buy multiple boxes of hamburger helper, but nay way you slice it, fresh produce is still quite costly. So is milk.A gallon of milk has gone up about a dollar a gallon at my local stores in the last year. So, while we can afford to buy most of the things we feel will make our children healthier, I feel like others may not have the same options.

Interesting... the (low) price of intensively farmed chicken is very much a current issue here in GB. Jamie Oliver and Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall are committed to questioning the morality of poultry-rearing practices imposed on farmers by the major supermarkets

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2008/01/02/nchickens102.xml

Also interesting, the effect of the programmes seems to have been to increase sales of both free-range chickens (as per plan) AND battery reared birds, perhaps due to the publicity given to the low price. I think that came as a shock, given that the premise of the programmes was "can it be right that a chicken should cost £2.50"? Tesco's (them again) have reduced prices further - to £1.99 a bird.

Lesley-London,

I think a "higher welfare" bird in the US may be an Ahmish chicken. They are a little more expensive than commodity and they are not free range but they are marketed as "all natural" which would mean free of many hormones and antibiotics and they are raised in Ahmish communities.

Organic chickens will be at least double the price of Ahmish chickens in the grocery store.

In this country at least, we have to keep in mind the fast food and processed food industries which perpetuate the need for factory farmed chickens. Again, in my opinion, you will have to change the culture before you can change the food industry.

Hi Art
That is precisely their point, particularly in Hugh's experiment. I think you would find the programmes interesting.

(Also, overall, they are not even aiming as high as you suggest - less carnage and canabalism amongst the birds being a start).

As I read the comments here, I am baffled that so many people cite food prices as "ridiculously expensive." Indeed, our food costs are some of the lowest they have been in recent history, even if they are rising. We have been spoiled by government subsidies that keep food prices low and subsidize the cost of unhealthy and processed food. We owe it to ourselves to buy fresh produce and cut back instead on the latest television, cable, and overstuffed closets full of throw-away fashion. At the end of the day, our health is our most valuable luxury. in tougher times, I will pursue a more veg-based diet (grains and beans are cheap).

the problem with making a "cheap" soup or stew is that you have to eat it for several days. it kind of sucks although it might be healthy, especially since there is so much advertising about the kind of life you should aspire to ($150 sheets, $30K prius cars, $500 eames chair - you know what i mean?)

in not-so-ancient times, people believed in class systems ordained by god or whatever, so the masses ate the peasant food while the rich got gout from luxury foods. so all of those slow cooked bean and grain dishes are delicious but then you have to deal with leftovers. that's when you feel poor. to be wealthy is to choose NOT to eat something - maybe this explains our american consumer culture? we all want to be rich and be able to throw things away!

Joan Vignocchi-
How does the invention of the home freezer fit into your theory?