definitely not meat. i'm vegan, but was vegetarian for a while. it's generally accepted that only the flesh of an animal is meat and that milk and eggs are animal byproducts.

if your friend still doesn't agree, tell her that eggs are unfertilized and therefore don't have any baby chickens in them.

To me, eggs are meat, even if unfertilized. They're a future chicken in a shell.

FWIW, I eat meat.

Yeah.. eggs aren't meat at all unless they have a chick in them.. which wouldn't really be an egg.. it would be a chick.

My spouse is an egg-eating vegetarian too. It's a byproduct when unfertilized.

They are basically the same as milk, like milk they provide nutrients for the developing youngster...if there is no youngster inside (i.e. no fertilization) then its just nutrients. Still an animal byproduct though so it oft comes down to a moral question and if you believe that the milking/or egg production is harmful to the cow/chicken.

An egg is no more meat than a sperm is a human being.

i think they're not meat. they are a natural byproduct. birds in the wild will lay eggs every day during the mating season, whether they are fertilized or not.

on an unrelated note, i had to explain to a colleague of mine that "dairy" meant milk or items that are produced from milk, and so eggs are not truly dairy even though they are in the same section in the grocery store. she seemed shocked. apparently she was under the impression that "dairy" meant "breakfast items." so to her, cereal and pancakes and bagels were all "dairy." and this woman had a PharmD... sigh.

I don't understand how eggs can be future chickens if they are unfertilized. I mean, not that I'm advocating eating it, but is rooster sperm meat? It's the other half of what makes a fertilized egg fertilized, right? Though admittedly and probably obviously I'm not a chicken reproduction expert. Unfertilized eggs are not future chickens and they are also not meat.

It depends on if your definition of meat is "protein" or "dead animal flesh". Sounds like your friend defines meat as protein and you define it as dead animal. Though I suspect her definition would break down if you asked her whether tofu was meat. (I'm a meat eater so I hope my second definition isn't offensive just trying to be explicit.)

I'm pro-choice. They're not meat. :P

If you're giving up Lent because you're Catholic, however, this might present more of a quandary for you.

A dictionary definition is probably all that is required (first hit on google dictionary):

Meat is flesh taken from a dead animal that people cook and eat.

Websters:

the flesh of animals as used for food.

By definition, eggs are not meat.

You can debate endlessly about what they are. I believe that almost all will agree that they are NOT plants NOR minerals.

[This sidesteps earth, wind and fire...]

I personally consider them meat. They contain cholesterol like meat, cholesterol is a by product of animal metabolism.

I particularly like them fried or poached...

this is ridiculous. that's like saying that the eggs in my ovaries are fetuses [simply because they _might_ be half of a fetus later on].

eggs aren't meat. eggs are eggs.

if you're a vegetarian that eats eggs and dairy, you're a lacto-ovo vegetarian. if you're a vegetarian that eats dairy but no eggs, you're a lacto-vegetarian (or "pure veg" in india).

and for the record, a vegetarian that eats fish isn't a vegetarian.

Don't get me started on "vegetarians" that eat fish, annaqua....ha

Egg definition from Merriam-Webster online:

1 a : the hard-shelled reproductive body produced by a bird and especially by the common domestic chicken; also : its contents used as food

b : an animal reproductive body consisting of an ovum together with its nutritive and protective envelopes and having the capacity to develop into a new individual capable of independent existence

I think you could go either way with this. I'm surprised at my own rather Catholic reaction to this. I think it's meat.

Once again Religion is the cause of a stupid, pointless debate.

As a fully-lapsed Catholic who still observes Lent and a lacto-ovo vegetarian, in my opinion: not meat. However, eggs were traditionally not eaten during Lent because they are a rich food. Some people give up butter, eggs, meat, sweets--all the richer, heavier foods. Which is why the traditional Easter foods are so heavy and rich and sweet.

I'm unclear on how this is a subjective question. A simple online search confirms that eggs are not meat.

Go looking online, I'm sure you'll find some church decree one way or another.

According to kosher laws, eggs are pareve, neither meat nor milk. Just as a data point for you.

This is not a subjective question. All meat is protein based. Eggs are protein based therefore, eggs are meat.

Faulty logic.

Meat is the flesh of animals and the incredible edible egg is unfertilized and un-animal.

It's frustrating to see this question posed as a debate. Clearly there is disagreement and debate among religions and philosophies about whether it is morally right to ingest certain things, including eggs. To serve such debates, subjective classifications of food products have been assigned by proponents of one point of view or another. But absent those subjective classifications, there is no debate about how to classify an egg. An egg, simply, is an egg. It is not meat. It is not dairy. It is an egg.

You cannot determine a *fact* by poll.

As meekmeek pointed out, eggs are not flesh, therefore by definition they are not meat. They are, however, protein.. though so is quinoa, which I hope that no one would argue is meat.

It's like asking for a poll about whether chickens are cats. Doesn't matter what you *opinion* is about it, they're not.

Although I am in agreement with the majority of responses here that eggs are not "meat," I am a little concerned by the belief that, "Of course it's true! The internet told me!"
You might have bigger problems than semantics in that case.

(And, I got a chuckle about the fish-eating vegetarians. They're actually pescetarians, not vegetarians, and I always have to laugh when they pride themselves on vegetarianism.)

Okay, I'm gonna take it there and its gonna be gross. But, to be fair, I warned you:

An unfertilized egg (which is what we eat) released by a chicken is basically its period.

So, unless you think sucking on a tampon classifies as "eating human meat," eggs are not meat.

I think the question is not whether eggs are considered meat, but what foods are given up during Lent. For some people it is red meat, fish is OK. Others give up all animal products, which would include eggs and dairy.

Eggs are not considered meat because they aren't animal flesh. There isn't any debate about that.

"An unfertilized egg (which is what we eat) released by a chicken is basically its period."

Shocking that the egg marketers of America haven't picked up this concept and run with it ;-)

@zephyrluna Using the internet as a research tool is not problematic by default. There's a difference between reliable sources and unreliable sources. How dismissive to claim that people citing to Merriam-Webster online, for example, are thoughtlessly claiming "Of course it's true! The internet told me!"

This is a neat question. Two things it makes me think of:

In France I had many encounters where I was assured that there was "no meat" in a particular dish - and then it turned out there was fish in it. These items were not considered "meat" in the same way as pork/beef.

When my MIL cooks, she will assure me that there is "no meat" in a particular dish - but inevitably there will be meat stock in it. My MIL is from Taiwan and to her, a stock is "not meat", even if it is made with meat. So vegetarians can eat it, by her understanding.

So really, what is and isn't SEEN AS being "meat" can also be a culturally-relevant thing, and language plays a big part in that.

That being said, by definition: eggs are not flesh. You can't argue with that. However! Definitions have nothing on how people perceive and categorize something: the way in which someone categorizes this item on the basis of some cultural/moral/religious/personal definitions or whatever may very well different from how they are literally defined.

The relationship between culture, language, and food practices is really interesting!

eggs are not future meat in a shell; they are menstruation, just like a woman's period.

From my very Catholic upbringing, we knew for Lent that fish and eggs don't count as meat. But I do see how many vegetarians are on the fence with that one.

And @a_difabio I cracked up at your post here. Next time I crack and egg I'm gonna picture a chicken with a box of tampax.

Easter must be LOADS of fun at your house.

This is the most absurd debate of all time, to the point where I can't understand how it's even a conversation. In fact, it's pissing me off.

Eggs are not a product of death = not meat, just like honey is not a product of death.

Eggs are not meat. ITs an animal product not the animal itself.
But from my understanding of lent, and i belong to one of the oldest forms of christianity, you give up all animal products, and become essentially a vegan for 40 days. In fact we have even dozens of traditional dishes that are vegan that are traditionally only made this time of year. So if you are doing lent properly you shouldnt be eating eggs. That being said some people do do their own version of lent and give up something they like.

about the religious/practical side of the debate: actually giving up eggs for lent wasn't so difficult in the past because naturally hens don't produce many eggs in winter.

People used to use up the last good eggs for the donuts, pancakes and other unhealthy delicious stuff traditionally prepared for fat Tuesday and then there were just no eggs left around to eat until Easter (about the time when hens start again laying eggs).

Do vegetarians eat caviar? Just asking ...

And a big hug to Patrick (the other one).

No, the point of Lent (as I was taught it) is that meat was expensive back in Biblical times and was considered a luxury and basically the reason we don't eat meat on Fridays is a small sacrifice. Giving up a luxury. Oddly I was told that our Archibishop in New Orleans told people since we enjoy so much seafood regularly there that the sacrifice is kind of lost on us and said we should pick something more meaningful to us.

FWIW, I'm an atheist. But eggs seem meat-esque enough to me to be put in the same category.

Caviar is made by extracting the eggs from the fish's body, which typically involves killing the fish, so no, it's not vegetarian.

SunnyBlue-- I'll take it! I need one today!

I also think the lines between "meat" and "animal protein" are getting blurred here.

As are the lines between religious practice and vegetarianism.

Agreed. I'd hate to see what happens if we ask how people feel as vegetarians/ for Lent about Jell-o. Yikes!

Another omnivore atheist here who thinks that if you're abstaining from meat, you shouldn't be eating eggs. Going along with the "period" analogy, would you consider eating human blood if you weren't eating human flesh?

And as a former Eastern Orthodox Christian who went vegan every Lent, I could never understand the point of the Catholic Lent. Is giving up meat for 6 days a week really such a sacrifice?

loves2sneeze,

I know someone who avoided eating eggs. Why? She thought all eggs contain a miniscule chicken fetus which would grow and eventually hatch if not refrigerated. I had to explain to her that for hens, laying eggs is not like giving birth. They lay eggs whether or not they've ever seen a rooster in their entire life, and though I'm sure it has happened, you shouldn't find fertilized eggs in the supermarket.

This is also the same person who thinks people turn gay because "it's so trendy now," and because "some people like a challenge"... because being gay is just like running a half-marathon. Her boyfriend fed her this theory and she thinks he's a genius. Go figure.

@ bubble:

I'm not saying I would consider eating anything from a human. Blood, flesh, hair whatever.

However, if Idid eat human blood, I would not fathom to say that I was eating meat.

They aren't dairy products, because they aren't created from milk.

They aren't meat, because they aren't flesh. Nor do they have the possibility to become flesh, as many have pointed out.

I can't say that I have the answer, other than that they are neither, and do we have to define them?

In Canada's Food Guide, I believe they fall under non-Meat Protein.

To consider another point, I've read about synthetic "meat" that has been produced in a laboratory setting. Basically, they coaxed animal muscle cells to develop outside the actual organism. I think that many would argue that this is meat, if it ever became commercially viable, and I think that eggs are "more meaty" than synthetic meat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_vitro_meat

@kaitlin - Which is interesting because in the US, eggs are listed with the meat in the food pyramid.

roe v wade for animals

Then where does Caviar come into this. Is Roe Meat? I saw the previous comment about this but just because you are killing the animal does not mean that Caviar is not vegetarian. Those eggs are similar to chicken eggs. Yes you are killing the animal or using a dead animal but that doesn't mean nutritionally they contain meat. Hair and bones aren't considered meat.

BTW, I vote that eggs are not meat. does anyone want to tally this up?

Ironic, I came to this site to plan an easter menu. Is that Irony? Alanis Morrisette has me so confused.

Egg protein is the gold standard of protein quality evalution. All protein's amino acid compostition is compared against egg protein for completeness.

@ GretaGrace It's not "meat" it's "protien". They also include beans and nuts.

I say not meat.

I'm a vegetarian, and I eat eggs and dairy products. I consider them animal products and not meat, because eggs are generally unfertilized and are shed naturally by the chicken just as human females have their monthly cycles, and milk does not involve killing the cow it came from.

However, the way things are usually done in the egg and dairy industry, male animals are often killed at a very young age, because they are obviously not the ones that lay eggs or give milk. So there is usually quite a bit of animal killing involved in producing eggs and milk.

I can't believe no one has brought up te fact that chicken isn't always considered meat either. Chicken is poulty in cookbooks and meat is meat and fish is fish. (mammals, vs bird, vs fish) only mammals are meat-meat

BTW, I concur with all those who say this is a retarded debate.

I am reminded of a disagreement I had with my boss a few months ago as to whether mayonnaise is dairy. He insisted it was because it wad made from eggs!

Eggs are not meat as they are not animal flesh in any way but the food source and cushioning for a baby animal IF the egg was fertilized. Since commercial eggs are not fertilized there's no bird embryo in the egg to be meat.

Also since we're talking about lent, by Catholic standards eggs are not meat either (neither is fish, reptiles, and for some bizarre reason Capybaras despite being mammals).

I would just like to say, as someone raised in a German/Irish Catholic home, that Lent has nothing to do with the "luxury" or "expense" of food. It is the 40 days/nights that Jesus gave up ALL FOOD and as a show of respect/in honor of His sacrifice Catholics give up meat (not including fish or eggs) and one other thing (something they love that may or may not be food). It is about fasting. We cannot fast as Jesus did for 40 days (as we would surely die), so we give up meats.

ohmygross.

reading some of these comments makes me a little queasy.

I feel a little silly beating this horse further into the ground, but I am compelled to voice my agreement with most of the other posters here...eggs are most definitely *not* meat.

Sheesh.

As determined by The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops:

"Since Jesus sacrificed his flesh for us on Good Friday, we refrain from eating flesh meat in his honor on Fridays. Flesh meat included the meat of mammals and poultry, and the main foods that come under this heading are beef and pork, chicken and turkey. While flesh is prohibited, the non-flesh products of these animals are not (like milk, cheese, butter and eggs)."

And for slcarr:

"Furthermore, in former times, flesh meat was more expensive, eaten only occasionally and associated with feasting and rejoicing; whereas fish was cheap, eaten more often and not associated with celebrations."

taken from:
http://thecatholicspirit.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1224&Itemid=39

Someone requested a tally? Here's what I've quickly compiled...

Considering my own vote of "not meat" here's how it shakes out:
Meat = 6
Not Meat = 22
Neither = 3

@slcarr,

There are actually some very mundane reasons for historical diet restrictions.

Way back (pre-Christianity), large meat dishes were prepared on the day that an animal -- lamb, pig, goat, cow -- was slaughtered at the beginning of the week.

There would probably be a large roast on Sunday, followed by meals that would use up the other parts throughout the rest of the week -- kidney or liver dishes, soup stock made from bones, etc.

By the end of the week when the animal had been fully utilized, a day or two would pass before the next animal would be slaughtered. During this time, fish was consumed instead.

Traditions like this integrated well into church doctrine; people were already accustomed to doing it and were able to attribute a nice religious sentiment to the practice. So the practice has meanings rooted in both abstention and in expense. Very cool.

But back to the question at hand: eggs are an animal byproduct, not an animal product.

Okay I would have left this one alone, but as a student of Animal and Poultry Sciences, and someone who has a focus on reproductive physiology there are some things I would like to point out here.

Eggs ARE NOT the same thing as a woman's menstruation. They are not the chicken's period or anything of this ridiculous nature.
The "Eggs" which we consume from poultry are more equivalent to the nutrients found in the placenta. If fertilized, the ovum would be a very small part of the contents of the "egg" that would divide and grow to fill the shell and use all the nutrients provided inside as it matured. Inside the egg we consume there would be an unfertilized ovum but the majority of the egg's contents are metabolites that would have been available for the chick to grow if it had been conceived.

Therefore the majority of eggs is all the nutrients needed for a chick to grow (which is why they are so good for you to eat, since you need those nutrients too).

I agree that eggs are definitely not "meat".
This is coming from a vegetarian who eats eggs.
Having said that, my teacher says that being a vegetarian means "eating nothing that has a mother". Meaning eggs would be off limits by that philosophy.
I say, you get to decide! The decision to eat (or not eat) meat, dairy, eggs, raw food, etc., is such a personal one that you should be able to decide what you are "allowed" to give up (or not), and not have to get any flack for it. ;-)
And I think that goes for everyone!!

Nothing has to die for you to eat an egg.

I still think it's a hens period. bmbrown's description explained what an egg was, but not what a period is.

I agree with all the posters that for Faith to present this as a 'debate' is ridiculous – "OK guys, discuss!" – because you cannot debate a fact. We would all agree that wood is a plant product, but you cannot 'debate' whether it is a fruit. It is not. Eggs are not meat. Why get yourselves into a tizzy conflating 'meat' with 'animal product'?

But I suppose we just need to recognise that people fall into several categories when it comes to their attitudes towards animal consumption, from those who just buy based on cheapness all the way to people who believe it's wrong to use the animal kingdom for any of our food, including honey. This is really a debate for people in the middle ground – vegetarians and occasional vegetarians – to draw lines in the sand about what's acceptable and what's not. Some people use theology to tell them why they should abstain or be moderate, others prefer reason and intelligence.

Personally, I try wherever possible to be a conscious consumer in all respects. So for me this means only free range poultry and pork, sustainable fish, and organic dairy (except cheese). What does it mean for others?

Oh, and just to be super-niggly... Greta-Grace, 3 people say eggs are neither meat nor not-meat? What an existential riddle their lives must be!

Bmbrown--it is true that the uterine lining in women, which is sloughed off along with an unfertilized egg during menstruation, is not exactly the same as the extraembryonic tissues of a chicken egg. However, the eggs we generally eat are unfertilized eggs that are laid by the chicken. Human females also produce eggs, and if unfertilized, they are shed through menstruation. That is how they are similar. Of course, the analogy cannot be perfect due to the fact that humans are eutherian mammals that provide nutrients to the embryo through the maternal blood supply via extraembryonic tissues like the placenta, which derive in large part from cells that come from the fertilized egg, but in addition to providing nutrients also function in establishing the embryonic axes (as is the case in chick embryos), and that birds supply nutrients to embryos through tissues within the egg so that the embryo can develop outside the mother. However, the parallel is that eggs are produced at some frequency in both organisms, and in both cases, unfertilized eggs are shed from the body.

Here is a good video on meat: http://meat.org

A quote from the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, fact finding via wikipedia, a visual of someone sucking on a tampon and a tally thrown in for good measure. This has to be the most awesome post I've seen on this blog.

Thank you for linking to that video, MHerzog. I'm ashamed to say that I couldn't bear to watch it through to the end. But at least I was already aware of these things even though I hadn't seen them, and a long time ago decided to make sure my animal product consumption was always ethical. I think it's a pity that groups like Peta and people like Paul McCartney use the horrifying extreme to advocate the other extreme, when a lot more people could be swayed to change their buying habits if material was included about the way you can consume animal products ethically.

Oviparous eggs are not the same thing as placental mammal eggs. A placental mammal egg is something with a chance of becoming a fleshy animal, if fertilized, while an oviparous egg is food for the embryo - if there is one. Unfertilized chicken eggs are nothing more than food for an embryo chick that is not there.

In a way, eating chicken eggs is analogous to eating placenta - which is something that most animals do, after delivering their babies. Humans generally have a taboo over eating their own placenta, but in some cultures it happens, not only because placentas are rich with nutrients but also because people believe it helps to decrease pain and avoid postpartum depression.

Vegetarians should be cooked, preferably in duck fat or bacon grease, and eaten.

Eggs are not meat. Who dreams up these silly, stupid ideas?

Eggs are not menstruation. They're OVULATION.

Unless, of course, the eggs are broken.

Egg is not flesh, and therefore not meat.

An egg IS an animal cell with DNA & a nucleus, and therefore can not properly be classified with honey and milk. There is actually a lot of food that is neither meat or vegetable, like salt.

I don't think the point about culture and language is valid. The question was posed in English and was not ambiguous. And a meat stocks flavour and nutrients came from flesh that required the death of an animal. It makes no difference that some bone, connective tissue and cell walls were later removed.

Eggs aren't meat. From my own perspective and from what I've heard from others, people who give up eggs for moral reasons do it because of how poorly chickens are treated in order to produce eggs, not because they see it as eating a chicken fetus.

Even ignoring oogle and the bajillion Catholic websites saying "eggs are okay for Lent," why are you attempting to answer this by surveying a cooking blog instead of just phoning your priest?

Elvedon, I think because in America people like to pick and choose what they give up for Lent, and even non-religious people talk about giving stuff up for Lent as a kind of social activity. Why else would a cooking blog have a post entitled "What are you giving up for Lent?" (as opposed to "Are you doing anything for Lent?").

@hyperRevue:

Shouldn't that read: an egg is no more meat than an egg is a human being?

Look vegan morons...it's very simple...eggs might not be muscle tissue yet but none the less they are very much a part of the chicken just like the liver...so yes they are definitely meat....and i like my eggs cooked in bacon grease